In verse one God explains what he is about to do...then he starts working in verse 2
Genesis 1 made more sensible and scientific
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In verse one God explains what he is about to do...then he starts working in verse 2
6days
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Species is a rubbery evolutionist word. New 'species' often are a result of organisms being highly adapted through a loss of pre-existing genetic information. 'Species' is not a Biblical term.
For further explanation, there are threads such as 'Rapid Adaptation'.
6days
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It seems no matter what scripture plainly says.....No matter how many translations agree.......no matter how many commentaries disagree with you....... you consider it all wrong if it doesn't compromise to allow your secular ideas into scripture.Rivers said:
Here is John Gill commentary
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the
word of God
The celestial world, with its inhabitants, the angels; the starry and ethereal worlds, with all that is in them, the sun, moon, stars, and fowls of the air; the terrestrial world, with all upon it, men, beasts and the watery world, the sea, and all that is therein: perhaps some respect may be had to the distinction of worlds among the Jews; (See Gill on Hebrews 1:2), though the apostle can scarce be thought to have any regard to their extravagant notions of vast numbers of worlds being created: they often speak of three hundred and ten worlds, in all which, they say, there are heavens, earth, stars, planets F6; and sometimes of eighteen thousand F7; but these notions are rightly charged by Philo F8 with ignorance and folly. However, as many worlds as there are, they are made "by the Word of God"; by Christ, the essential Word of God, to whom the creation of all things is ascribed in ( John 1:1-3 ) . And this agrees with the sentiments of the Jews, who ascribe the creation of all things to the Word of God, as do the Targumists F9, and Philo the Jew F11. And these are "framed" by the Word, in a very beautiful and convenient order; the heavens before the earth; things less perfect, before those that were more so in the visible world, or terraqueous globe; and things for men, before men, for whom they were; and it is by divine revelation and faith that men form right notions of the creation, and of the author of it, and particularly of the origin of it, as follows:
so that things which are seen:
as the heaven, earth, and sea, and in which the invisible things of God, the perfections of his nature, are discerned:
were not made of things which do appear;
they were not made from pre-existent matter, but out of nothing, out of which the rude and undigested chaos was formed; and from that invisible mass, covered with darkness, were all visible things brought into a beautiful order; and all from secret and hidden ideas in the divine minds; and this also is the faith of the Jews, that the creation of all things is (Nyam) , "out of nothing" F12. There seems to be an allusion to the word (arb) , used for creation, which signifies to make appear a thing unseen; and is rendered in the Septuagint version by (deiknumi) , ( Numbers 16:30 ) and (katadeiknumi) , ( Isaiah 40:26 ) ( 41:20 ) to show, or make appear; and thus God created, or made to appear, the heavens and earth, which before were not in being, and unseen, ( Genesis 1:1 Genesis 1:2 ) and created to make, as in ( Genesis 2:3 ) that is, made them to appear, that he might put them into the form and order they now are.
Greg Jennings
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Well that was a bunch of 6days's typical factual baloney. I can't say that it had anything to do with what I said. I'll amend my statement to:
He [Stripe] and 6days [you] think that dinosaurs and every animal (from dinosaurs, to mammoths, to megalodon, to sabre tooth kitties and giant sloths, to 3 foot wide spiders and 6 foot dragonflies, and including all modern animals) all existed at the same point in time.
Is that correct?
It seems to me that you depend upon fallacious appeals to lexical sources and commentaries because you can't offer an authoritative explanation of your own. As I've noted before, the term AIWNAS does not mean "creation" or "world" or "universe" or "heavens and earth." Thus, your endeavor to insert that language into Hebrews 11:3 shows that you aren't paying attention to the context or how the biblical writer actually used the language.
I agree. Good point.
There's nothing in the grammar or the context of the Genesis creation story that would suggest that the "light" in Genesis 1:3-5 is any different than the "light" in Genesis 1:14-18.
I'm saying that when the Hebrew priest redacted the books in Babylon they failed to remove such telltale facts as Cain's fear of people abroad. Today literalist rationalize the omission by claiming the outsiders were Adams unmentioned children. Also, we come to the OT writings as a tidy package not to be questioned, as if they really came down from heaven. Abram's religion was that of his Fathers before converting to Melchizedeks movement. Joshua 24:2 (ESV)
2 And Joshua said to all the people, “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘Long ago, your fathers lived beyond the Euphrates, Terah, the father of Abraham and of Nahor; and they served other gods.
Abram already knew of Adam, it would have been common long before the Hebrew language was invented.
6days
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Again... you add to scripture. Nothing in those verses say anything of others outside of family. "And Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.”
And the Lord said to him, “Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him. Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of 9Nod on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, rand called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.
When do you think the Hebrew language was invented?
If you read Genesis 4:13-17, it's evident that both Cain and the Lord acknowledge that there were others "who" might kill Cain after he left Eden. Cain seems to have taken his wife after he left Eden as well.
Greg Jennings
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Does it actually say "city"? Because a man, his wife, and their child(ren) has not ever been considered a city at any point in time.
Sounds a lot like Nod had some previous occupants, including Cain's wife! What say you?!
6days
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The problem Rivers as that you keep inserting secular ideas rationalizing and compromising what scripture says. God tells us in the beginning,He created everything in six days. You say It wasn't the beginning...it was a recreation... it was long periods of time... that death existed before sin... that other people were in the world..... Etc Etc. IOW, you preach a compromised, and possibly a heretical message (Similar to BIOLOGOS)
6days
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I say... I will discuss theology with you if you claim to believe the Bible is God's Word. There is no point discussing theology with a 'hostile witness'.
As I've pointed out before (as well as others here), Genesis 1:2 shows that the land was already covered with "darkness" and "deep waters" BEFORE God commanded anything to happen on Day One (Genesis 1:3-5). Thus, your theory simply ignores what is described in the context.
It seems to me that your fanatical misconceptions about the "six days" (Exodus 20:11) are causing you to ignore the contextual indicators that make your interpretation of the story implausible and inconsistent. It has nothing to do with anyone else introducing "secular ideas."
Greg Jennings
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Look, I'm just asking where the heck Cain's wife came from. If your "bible is always true" statement can't even stand up to that inquiry, then what hope is there for it?
According to the situation set up in your preferred myth, it seems that either A) she's an unmentioned close relative (because the bible [and other texts of the period] deems women less important) or B) an inhabitant of a land occupied by those not of Adam's descent
6days
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6days
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God tells us that in six days He made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. You reject His word saying that things already existed. You reject the first three words of the Bible...you say it wasn't the real beginning. And... you continue on throughout scripture rejecting what God says.
I'm not the one who tries to re-explain everything in scripture.
I believe when God says "the beginning"... it was the beginning.
When God says He created everything in six days...I believe He created everything in six days.
When God says death entered the world through Adam...I believe death entered the world through Adam.
When God says He created woman from Adam's rib...I believe God created woman from Adam's rib.
When God tells us He created Adam from the dust...He means it.
Etc..... His Word is not complicated. It does not need your explanations and compromises to fit secular ideas.
6days
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Greg... There are good articles on the topic written by theologians...biologists and others. Google apologetic sites that accept God's Word as a source of absolute truth.
Greg Jennings
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I'm asking what YOU think and why. I already told you what my quick click research provided.
You never responded to this:
You think that dinosaurs and every animal (from dinosaurs, to mammoths, to megalodon, to sabre tooth kitties and giant sloths, to 3 foot wide spiders and 6 foot dragonflies, and including all modern animals) all existed at the same point in time.
Is that correct?