General question for all TOL religious people

KingdomRose

New member
  • Not through your cult.
  • Read the Word and then believe it.
  • Paul says we have unity in the body by sound doctrine.
  • Your doctrine is unsound.
  • "Oh indeed?" is weird.

You are unable to explain to me just how every individual Christian on Earth can carry out Christ's commands in an orderly manner, when there is no central body of some sort to direct the work of the church. Why do you refuse to answer?
 

Right Divider

Body part
You are unable to explain to me just how every individual Christian on Earth can carry out Christ's commands in an orderly manner, when there is no central body of some sort to direct the work of the church. Why do you refuse to answer?
I understand your confusion, since you think that everything that Christ said on earth to Israel supersedes the things that He said LATER to and through Paul to us.
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
The authority is in the scriptures, not a person.

Hi Jamie,

I agree with you that the Scriptures are authoritative. But they have to be understood properly. And I think Luke 10:16 and Matthew 18:17, for example, show that there is authority in the leaders of Christ's Church.

Do you think those do not show that?

Some teachers are good teachers, some teachers are false teachers.

Agreed.

How can we tell the difference?

Good question. How?

What if I told you there are some false teachers on TOL?

Well, I guess I would agree with you but I don't think of forums as people teaching so much as just people having conversations and discussions.

Paul said to prove what a person teaches is true and commended the Berean congregation for doing so.

He commended them? Not sure I know where that is.

Acts 17:11 NET These Jews were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they eagerly received the message, examining the scriptures carefully every day to see if these things were so.​

What the Bereans received better than what most (but not all) of those in Thessalonica did was Paul's oral teaching and his interpretation of the Old Testament scriptures that spoke of Christ as the Messiah. They searched the O.T. Scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true...but what they accepted was his authoritative oral teaching.

Jesus said that even his elect will be deceived if possible. (Matthew 24:24 NET)

Yeah. It is a weird time in this age where we have access to so much information and so many different ideas and ideologies and everything else. It can feel overwhelming to me if I am not careful.

God Bless.
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Peter and the other Apostles preached The Kingdom Gospel to the House of Israel only. They preached: Faith in Christ plus works. Whereas, The Apostle Paul preached The Grace Gospel to the Gentiles which included : Faith without works. Therein, lies the difference.

Hey Grosnick,

I'm not sure what your post above has to do with the intended audience of the book of Hebrews.

I thought you claimed it was meant for Jews only while I see evidence that it was intended for Jewish Christians.

I thought that was what we were talking about and I'm not sure how your post above contributes to that discussion.

Forgive me if I am not seeing your point.

Peace.
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
Religion vs Spiritual is a false dichotomy. It's most common purpose is to simply justify one's heresy, and everybody who isn't part of a traditional church uses that line even as they themselves don't agree with each other. Christianity is not a 'one size fits all' belief, it doesn't matter how much you want to make such it's base or finish, shoe or hat, it's against the very nature of Abrahamic belief.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hey Grosnick,
Forgive me if I am not seeing your point.

Some claim, "The Apostle Paul preached The Grace Gospel to the Gentiles which included : Faith without works."

This is Marowbe's point.

A valid question would be did Paul in fact teach faith without works?

In 1 Thessalonians 1:3 NET Paul took notice of the work of faith of the Thessalonica congregation.

Faith is demonstrated by what we say an do.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
Does that mean women can't be pastors?

! Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Women should NOT be Pastors.
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
! Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Women should NOT be Pastors.
Does that mean Hillary can't be president?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Religion vs Spiritual is a false dichotomy. It's most common purpose is to simply justify one's heresy, and everybody who isn't part of a traditional church uses that line even as they themselves don't agree with each other. Christianity is not a 'one size fits all' belief, it doesn't matter how much you want to make such it's base or finish, shoe or hat, it's against the very nature of Abrahamic belief.

:chuckle:
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Hey Grosnick,

I'm not sure what your post above has to do with the intended audience of the book of Hebrews.

I thought you claimed it was meant for Jews only while I see evidence that it was intended for Jewish Christians.

I thought that was what we were talking about and I'm not sure how your post above contributes to that discussion.

Forgive me if I am not seeing your point.

Peace.

You're forgiven.
 

DavidK

New member
Yes, and they will answer to God. He has always had an earthly organization. His people answered to Moses, and then Joshua, and then a line of judges. Jehovah would communicate with these men and they would instruct the people on what God had said.

In the beginning God walked with Adam and Eve. In Exodus 19 it was the desire of the Lord to show Himself to all the people and let them hear Him talk with Moses, but in Exodus 20, out of fear, they ask Moses to mediate between them so they would not have to behold God. Israel was not given priests and judges because God wanted separation, but because of the hardness of their hearts.

As history progressed, men sought more and more layers of mediators, asking for a King in place of the judges, establishing traditions as a hedge around the law.

But Jesus' birth, death, resurrection, and sending of His Spirit put an end to all of that once for all, and He became our sole mediator before the Father and moved the law from letter on stone into our hearts.

God is not a God of chaos and confusion, but He is a God of peace (I Corinthians 14:33). How can there be order and a lack of confusion with no humans taking the lead in Christ's church? Do you think every Christian can direct himself in an orderly manner in unison with every other Christian? How would that be done?

By the Spirit working through the entire Body of Christ. Pastor, elder, and bishop are interchangeable descriptions of a role for mature believers in the body to lead, instruct, and correct the members of the body. The words are used for different emphases (shepherding, maturity, governance), not to set up a hierarchy.

We have scripture and the Holy Spirit resident inside us to lead us individually, but we also know our not-yet-fully-sanctified hearts can be deceitful, so we submit to the consensus among the plurality of elders. No one mortal man was ever intended to be the final authority in the Church.

We identify the Church in our local area by those who uphold scripture as the final authority on doctrine.

The witness of scripture is that there will not be a clear unity with every other person who identifies as Christian until the end of this age. The wheat and tares are left to ripen together until the final harvest, and attempts to identify one person, apart from Christ Himself, to bring unity to the Church is of the spirit of antichrist.

Unity happens when people are focused on Jesus in Spirit and Truth. We go where we are looking, and in fixing our gaze on Him, we'll find ourselves walking in unison with others who are doing likewise.
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
I don't have a "spiritual father" of the sort you're asking about, but I acknowledge the existence of such. Seems like Paul and Timothy had such a relationship.

I probably just have issues with authority.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Any context where the "man" is not her young son.

Nope, here's the context: "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet."

Why? What man?

"For Adam was formed first and then Eve."

Paul explained that the husband is the head of his wife, not all wives, just his wife.

A wife is to be subject to her husband, not every husband on earth, just her husband.

The context is marital, not spiritual.
 
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