Gay Rights or Freedom of Religion and Speech?

TracerBullet

TracerBullet

New member
Lon said:
:doh: You really need to catch up. Yes some certainly are obliged, or at least those are the lawsuits that are passed and being contested. If a couple comes to my church and asks me to marry them, as soon as I allow access to one, the lawsuits are pushing that I then must allow all.

They forget that the free-exercise thereof, is my religious conviction, but they are suing none-the-less.

We've allowed 1% of the population to tell 99% how to live. That is absurd.
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No minister, priest, rabbi or any other religious leader is obliged to perform any wedding ceremony. A Rabbi can decline to marry a non Jewish couple. Minister's can refuse to marry interracial couples. Priests can refuse to marry individuals who have divorced a previous spouse.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
TracerBullet said:
No minister, priest, rabbi or any other religious leader is obliged to perform any wedding ceremony. A Rabbi can decline to marry a non Jewish couple. Minister's can refuse to marry interracial couples. Priests can refuse to marry individuals who have divorced a previous spouse.
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I agree with you. I'm telling you there are lawsuits that are currently demanding this exemption be revoked.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
In regards to The Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The bill passed by Indiana did not give anyone the right to discriminate. The bill was to protect small Christian owned businesses from being discriminated against, by Gay activist targeting them and forcing them to deny their faith. Gays ask for tolerance but practice the opposite. Gays are a minority trying to get the majority to accept their values. The purpose of the “Religious Freedom Restoration Act,” was to give business owners a stronger legal defense if they refuse to serve lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender customers and want to cite their faith as justification for their actions. Gay activist do not want Christians to have the right to keep their religious beliefs. And that is the bottom line.
 
TracerBullet

TracerBullet

New member
CherubRam said:
In regards to The Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The bill passed by Indiana did not give anyone the right to discriminate. The bill was to protect small Christian owned businesses from being discriminated against, by Gay activist targeting them and forcing them to deny their faith. Gays ask for tolerance but practice the opposite. Gays are a minority trying to get the majority to accept their values. The purpose of the “Religious Freedom Restoration Act,” was to give business owners a stronger legal defense if they refuse to serve lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender customers and want to cite their faith as justification for their actions. Gay activist do not want Christians to have the right to keep their religious beliefs. And that is the bottom line.
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Well that is just a lie. You can have what ever religious beliefs you want but you don't have the right to inflict them on others and you don't have the right to discriminate.
 
kmoney

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
CherubRam said:
In regards to The Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The bill passed by Indiana did not give anyone the right to discriminate. The bill was to protect small Christian owned businesses from being discriminated against, by Gay activist targeting them and forcing them to deny their faith. Gays ask for tolerance but practice the opposite. Gays are a minority trying to get the majority to accept their values. The purpose of the “Religious Freedom Restoration Act,” was to give business owners a stronger legal defense if they refuse to serve lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender customers and want to cite their faith as justification for their actions. Gay activist do not want Christians to have the right to keep their religious beliefs. And that is the bottom line.
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The parts I bolded don't seem to go together. What is your definition of discrimination?

What is an example of a business owner denying their faith by serving a gay person? Do you mean wedding services?
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
kmoney said:
The parts I bolded don't seem to go together. What is your definition of discrimination?

What is an example of a business owner denying their faith by serving a gay person? Do you mean wedding services?
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Only persons with religious reasons could refuse serving Gays, not just anyone could make use of that law.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
TracerBullet said:
Well that is just a lie. You can have what ever religious beliefs you want but you don't have the right to inflict them on others and you don't have the right to discriminate.
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The word "discriminate" can be applied as a positive or negative.

Discriminate

dis·crim·i·nate / dəˈskriməˌnāt/


verb

Verb: discriminate; 3rd person present: discriminates; past tense: discriminated; past participle: discriminated; gerund or present participle: discriminating

1. recognize a distinction; differentiate.
"babies can discriminate between different facial expressions of emotion"

synonyms: differentiate, distinguish, draw a distinction, tell the difference, tell apart; More
separate, separate the sheep from the goats, separate the wheat from the chaff

"he cannot discriminate between fact and fiction"

•perceive or constitute the difference in or between.
"bats can discriminate a difference in echo delay of between 69 and 98 millionths of a second"

2. make an [just or unjust] or, [judicial or prejudicial] distinction in the treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, sex, age, or sexual orientation.
 
M

mskris

New member
Some one will always have to give up their rights for some one else to be able to have their rights. There is no in between.

Society is now telling one group (Christians) that our right of freedom of religion is no longer our right and we should have to give it up for the right to choose how to live your life?

So the issue really is:

Which right is the more correct view? The right of freedom of religion or the right to choose your lifestyle?

Religion can arguably be a lifestyle, so that then begets the question:

How do we determine what lifestyle is the correct version?

For the answer, we need an impartial, all-knowing judge. And we have that.
 
TracerBullet

TracerBullet

New member
mskris said:
Some one will always have to give up their rights for some one else to be able to have their rights. There is no in between.
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Nonsense

Society is now telling one group (Christians) that our right of freedom of religion is no longer our right and we should have to give it up for the right to choose how to live your life?
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Are you being prevented from worshiping at your church?

are you in danger of being arrested because you belong to a particular religion?

Are you being the right to marry because of your religion?

No you aren't.


No religious rights have been taken from you. Deal with it
 
kmoney

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
CherubRam said:
Only persons with religious reasons could refuse serving Gays, not just anyone could make use of that law.
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Are you saying that denying a gay person service for a religious reason isn't discrimination?


EDIT: in the post I responded to was your point that the bill didn't give everyone the right discriminate against gay people?
 
TracerBullet

TracerBullet

New member
CherubRam said:
The word "discriminate" can be applied as a positive or negative.

Discriminate

dis·crim·i·nate / dəˈskriməˌnāt/


verb

Verb: discriminate; 3rd person present: discriminates; past tense: discriminated; past participle: discriminated; gerund or present participle: discriminating

1. recognize a distinction; differentiate.
"babies can discriminate between different facial expressions of emotion"

synonyms: differentiate, distinguish, draw a distinction, tell the difference, tell apart; More
separate, separate the sheep from the goats, separate the wheat from the chaff

"he cannot discriminate between fact and fiction"

•perceive or constitute the difference in or between.
"bats can discriminate a difference in echo delay of between 69 and 98 millionths of a second"

2. make an [just or unjust] or, [judicial or prejudicial] distinction in the treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, sex, age, or sexual orientation.
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of course there is no way anyone could pretend that definition 1 is applicable to rights unless someone was either trying to justify hate and prejudice OR if someone was very stupid
 
R

resodko

BANNED
Banned
TracerBullet said:
yeah, this group rented out a venue, a piece of property not a church, to the general population. And as you pointed out:


They chose to refuse to rent that venue out to members of a minority and got sued. They were engaged in a public for profit business and what happened is exactly what would have happened if they refused to rent a venue to a black couple.
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if I don’t want to rent out my venue to blacks or gays or jews or irish or swedes or pedophiles or Christians…..what business is it of the government to force me to enter into a business relationship against my will?
 
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