TracerBullet
New member
you mean like ostracizing gays and lesbians
Marriage is a concept independent of any religion
Gay Rights or Freedom of Religion and Speech?
- Thread starter CherubRam
- Start date
CherubRam
New member
:doh: I gave more than one story for everyone to read. :dizzy:
Naturally non churches are not a part of this conversation. :doh:
CherubRam
New member
I see that you are out to lunch, so have a nice day.
journey
New member
Freedom of religion and speech must come first. They are guaranteed by the Constitution. Homosexual acts were a felony in most states not long ago. No, I don't think that a Christian baker should be forced to make gay statements on a cake. I have no problem in selling them the cake and letting them do the gay decorations themselves. Things are getting ridiculous.
Alate_One
Well-known member
Who is being ostracized?
But it's been under the realm of the state for quite some time now. If it were purely a religious rite, there would be no controversy over the state recognizing gay marriage. It's not like there is controversy over gay baptism or gay communion. Why? Because communion and baptism are purely religious rites.
You also know that gay marriage existed in ancient Rome right? Nothing is new under the sun.
TracerBullet
New member
Fine. If you really want to go that route
The second and third google link:
are the same story from England
the fourth google link
is from Denmark.
If you want to talk about constitutionally protected rights then we need to stay in the USA
the fifth google link is an opinion piece by the man who wrote the Alabama Sanctity of Marriage Amendment (ruled to be unconstitutional) who says he believes that "There will be a lot of lawsuits over whether ministers have to do it," but fails to identify any legal grounds for such a lwsuit.
the sixth google link is a fact checking article which addresses a number of anti-gay claims made by religious conservatives. Of interest to us is the claim: "Churches Will Lose Tax Exempt Status For Denying Services To Same-Sex Couples." The fact checking shows this to be untrue
The seventh google link includes the opinion of a civil rights lawyer who says that CHurches don't have to marry anybody they don't want to and that this has always been the case.
it concludes: "As for why the fear of invisible legal action is becoming a talking point, Murray reminded the political, and cultural, landscapes are changing.
'There was a time when religious and conservative people could control the culture about marriage. However, marriage equality has shifted. Now they are recasting themselves in a victim mentality.'"
Which sums this thing up.
Would we like to continue looking at the links you provided that show the opposite of your OP claims? I'm more than willing to keep on
TracerBullet
New member
just like how interracial marriages once were
Lon
Well-known member
They are taking so much flak and intolerance (incredibly) that the US has officially said
"NO BIGOTS in America!!!"
There you have it. You do NOT have a right to Bigotry. You will be jailed, if ostracizing and sanctions doesn't work? We have become the United STATE of America?
"No Indiana, you cannot determine your own laws or direct your on course of action!
"
lain:
"NO BIGOTS in America!!!"
There you have it. You do NOT have a right to Bigotry. You will be jailed, if ostracizing and sanctions doesn't work? We have become the United STATE of America?
"No Indiana, you cannot determine your own laws or direct your on course of action!
"lain:
CherubRam
New member
New Jersey Rules against Christian Group that Declined to Host Lesbian Civil Union Ceremony: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/n...tian-group-that-declined-to-host-lesbian-civi
TracerBullet
New member
They are taking so much flak and intolerance (incredibly) that the US has officially said
"NO BIGOTS in America!!!"
There you have it. You do NOT have a right to Bigotry. You will be jailed, if ostracizing and sanctions doesn't work? We have become the United STATE of America?
"No Indiana, you cannot determine your own laws or direct your on course of action!
so let's get out there and support bigotry :doh:
TracerBullet
New member
yeah, this group rented out a venue, a piece of property not a church, to the general population. And as you pointed out:
They chose to refuse to rent that venue out to members of a minority and got sued. They were engaged in a public for profit business and what happened is exactly what would have happened if they refused to rent a venue to a black couple.
One little problem, if you read the article that's the top result, you will note that despite the title that Fox gave it, the target of the lawsuit is not a church at all. It is a business.
everready
New member
For the Sodomites that think they are being treated unfairly give this a read.
Two angels had just arrived at Lots home, this is what transpired that night.
Genesis 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
You have to ask yourself do you want this to happen to the United States?
everready
Two angels had just arrived at Lots home, this is what transpired that night.
Genesis 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
You have to ask yourself do you want this to happen to the United States?
everready
TracerBullet
New member
'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things* before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.” Ezekiel 16:49-50
*Detestable things - shiqquts; sheqets; shiqqutsim - a term always applied to idol-worship or to objects connected with idolatry
Lon
Well-known member
No it isn't that refined and certainly trying to molest messengers of God were detestable. Rape and child-predation are certainly detestable crimes. Many homosexuals should now be in prison for what they did when they were 20 with underage children and even for suggestive predation. No question.
everready
New member
Your translation is corrupted.
Ezekiel 50:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Sodomy is an abomination before the Lord.
"as you have seen" has been corrupted as well, it reads "as I saw good".
everready
i'm pretty sure the atrocities and depravity of Sodom are a million times worse in the world today, presently ! ! ! -
atrol: