Free Will

[popsthebuilder]

YOU said you do not believe you are saved.

This discussion is about God NOT saving UNBELIEVERS.

You have NOT proven that God saves unbelievers.

You have not proven it with scripture, and you have NOT proven it by way of personal testimony.

You are the one who needs to fear God for saying He saves unbelievers when He says if you do not believe in me you will die in your sins!

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."


Did you read that?

We have to believe or we will die in our sins.

You say God saves unbelievers.

You speak against the Word of God.

For me to proclaim my own salvation is vanity and I will not.

Hope is not synonymous with faith.

I did not have faith.

I hardly had hope.

I was saved from my own eminent destruction by my own hand. Being given faith and revelation and lifting of burdens in the same gracious, marvelous happening.

I was atheist at the time I was given faith. We must not conflate atheism or deism with the unbeliever which actually more closely represents the knowing disbeliever or hypocrite.



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[beloved57]

Mans will is not free, for he cant come to Christ unless the Father draws him Jn 6:44

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Mans will is not free, for he cant come to Christ unless the Father draws him Jn 6:44

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Is God able to create a new song?

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[God's Truth]

For me to proclaim my own salvation is vanity and I will not.

Hope is not synonymous with faith.

I did not have faith.

I hardly had hope.

I was saved from my own eminent destruction by my own hand. Being given faith and revelation and lifting of burdens in the same gracious, marvelous happening.

I was atheist at the time I was given faith. We must not conflate atheism or deism with the unbeliever which actually more closely represents the knowing disbeliever or hypocrite.



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God does NOT save unbelievers.

God does not give unbelievers faith and then saves them.

We must believe in Him to have faith and to get saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Faith alone without right action is dead.

We have to have faith and right action to get saved.

James 2:14 What good is it, my brethren, if a man professes to have faith, and yet his actions do not correspond? Can such faith save him?


James is explaining that faith without right action CANNOT SAVE.


James 2:17 So also faith, if it is unaccompanied by obedience, has no life in it--so long as it stands alone.


That faith that is without obedience is NOT ALIVE it is DEAD.


James 2:20 But, idle boaster, are you willing to be taught how it is that faith apart from obedience is worthless? Take the case of Abraham our forefather.

James 2:22 You notice that his faith was co-operating with his actions, and that by his actions his faith was perfected;

 

[popsthebuilder]

Faith alone without right action is dead.

We have to have faith and right action to get saved.

James 2:14 What good is it, my brethren, if a man professes to have faith, and yet his actions do not correspond? Can such faith save him?


James is explaining that faith without right action CANNOT SAVE.


James 2:17 So also faith, if it is unaccompanied by obedience, has no life in it--so long as it stands alone.


That faith that is without obedience is NOT ALIVE it is DEAD.


James 2:20 But, idle boaster, are you willing to be taught how it is that faith apart from obedience is worthless? Take the case of Abraham our forefather.

James 2:22 You notice that his faith was co-operating with his actions, and that by his actions his faith was perfected;

Who is arguing that at this time?

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[God's Truth]

Who is arguing that at this time?

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You said God saves unbelievers.

You said God gives faith to unbelievers.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You said God saves unbelievers.

You said God gives faith to unbelievers.

And how does that go against the verses you quoted.

As if an unbeliever isn't made new and different upon receiving faith.

As if the faith of the once unbelieving is somehow less than the faith of the mass indoctrinated, or non effectual. On the contrary, it has been my findings that those who blindly follow tradition and upbringing are simply going through the pases in many instances.

What sort of logic are you using?

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[God's Truth]

And how does that go against the verses you quoted.

As if an unbeliever isn't made new and different upon receiving faith.

As if the faith of the once unbelieving is somehow less than the faith of the mass indoctrinated, or non effectual. On the contrary, it has been my findings that those who blindly follow tradition and upbringing are simply going through the pases in many instances.

What sort of logic are you using?

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God gives faith to those who hear His Word, to those who have been taught, persuaded, and convinced. That is HOW we get faith.

Faith alone is dead unless you obey.

God does not give faith to people who do not believe in Him.

If you called on God to help you, to save you, then He will do that, if you repented of your sins.

Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, and then Paul believed and had faith in Jesus.

Paul still had to obey Jesus before he was saved.

Just to say God gives faith to someone supernaturally to make them believe and obey is not in the scriptures. That is a teaching from Calvinists. Calvinists say that God supernaturally, by the Holy Spirit, regenerates you to believe, to have faith and obedience, and at that time you are saved.

However, that is nowhere in the scriptures.

There are instances where Jesus appeared to someone and that appearance made them believe and have faith: however, there is no instance where God just made someone believe and obey and thus be saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Calvin and Luther had some of the same false beliefs about God enabling you by a supernatural enabling.

They were both Catholics who studied from Augustine.

 

[Nanja]

Mans will is not free, for he cant come to Christ unless the Father draws him Jn 6:44

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Amen Brother!

And when Jesus said in:

John 5:40
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

It means they will not come because they don't have the ability to.
It's something the Father must enable them to do.

John 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


James 1:17-18
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

 

[God's Truth]

Amen Brother!

And when Jesus said in:

John 5:40
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

It means they will not come because they don't have the ability to.
It's something the Father must enable them to do.

John 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Those scriptures were said by Jesus when the faithless Jews were cut off and hardened by God!

The only Jews who could come to Jesus to be saved were the Jews who already belonged to God before Jesus came.

They came to Jesus because they recognized what Jesus said as being the words of God.

John 6:45 Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.


Did you read that?

That is not some special enabling to those who hate God, as you teach.

 

[beloved57]

Nanja

And when Jesus said in:

John 5:40
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

It means they will not come because they don't have the ability to.

Exactly!

 

[beloved57]

Those scriptures were said by Jesus when the faithless Jews were cut off and hardened by God!

The only Jews who could come to Jesus to be saved were the Jews who already belonged to God before Jesus came.

They came to Jesus because they recognized what Jesus said as being the words of God.

John 6:45 Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.


Did you read that?

That is not some special enabling to those who hate God, as you teach.

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies hating God and opposing Him Rom 5:10

 

[beloved57]

God gives faith to those who hear His Word, to those who have been taught, persuaded, and convinced. That is HOW we get faith.

Faith alone is dead unless you obey.

God does not give faith to people who do not believe in Him.

If you called on God to help you, to save you, then He will do that, if you repented of your sins.

Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, and then Paul believed and had faith in Jesus.

Paul still had to obey Jesus before he was saved.

Just to say God gives faith to someone supernaturally to make them believe and obey is not in the scriptures. That is a teaching from Calvinists. Calvinists say that God supernaturally, by the Holy Spirit, regenerates you to believe, to have faith and obedience, and at that time you are saved.

However, that is nowhere in the scriptures.

There are instances where Jesus appeared to someone and that appearance made them believe and have faith: however, there is no instance where God just made someone believe and obey and thus be saved.

Jesus tells us who it is that hears God's words John 8:47

 

[popsthebuilder]

God gives faith to those who hear His Word, to those who have been taught, persuaded, and convinced. That is HOW we get faith.

Faith alone is dead unless you obey.

God does not give faith to people who do not believe in Him.

If you called on God to help you, to save you, then He will do that, if you repented of your sins.

Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, and then Paul believed and had faith in Jesus.

Paul still had to obey Jesus before he was saved.

Just to say God gives faith to someone supernaturally to make them believe and obey is not in the scriptures. That is a teaching from Calvinists. Calvinists say that God supernaturally, by the Holy Spirit, regenerates you to believe, to have faith and obedience, and at that time you are saved.

However, that is nowhere in the scriptures.

There are instances where Jesus appeared to someone and that appearance made them believe and have faith: however, there is no instance where God just made someone believe and obey and thus be saved.

I heard the Word sometime after praying while I was at very least still agnostic, really still atheist but more spiritual maybe. You act as if one can only hear the word from scripture or the congregation and then come to know faith through them. I am saying that the Word of GOD can come via other avenues than scripture alone, and it gives faith to that lost and weary soul.



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[popsthebuilder]

God gives faith to those who hear His Word, to those who have been taught, persuaded, and convinced. That is HOW we get faith.

Faith alone is dead unless you obey.

God does not give faith to people who do not believe in Him.

If you called on God to help you, to save you, then He will do that, if you repented of your sins.

Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, and then Paul believed and had faith in Jesus.

Paul still had to obey Jesus before he was saved.

Just to say God gives faith to someone supernaturally to make them believe and obey is not in the scriptures. That is a teaching from Calvinists. Calvinists say that God supernaturally, by the Holy Spirit, regenerates you to believe, to have faith and obedience, and at that time you are saved.

However, that is nowhere in the scriptures.

There are instances where Jesus appeared to someone and that appearance made them believe and have faith: however, there is no instance where God just made someone believe and obey and thus be saved.

I was indeed remorseful and actively repenting or trying to change from my previous ways. But I had no direct or inclination to do so via a book I had never read or a church I had never attended. I knew what I loathed was wrong but didn't see it as sin.

So are you trying to say that an agnostic is a believer and as such can be given faith? I'm so confused.

Really now that I think about it. I had been given faith in 2011 and didn't really read the new testament until a little over a year ago maybe.

So how does that align with your opinion that hearing and faith must come from the little book?

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[beloved57]

So freewill is a lie of the devil, man has no freewill to come to Christ. A person can come to Christ if the Father draws him Jn 6:44. This drawing is the the Sovereign Power and Grace of the Holy Spirit of God !

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

So freewill is a lie of the devil, man has no freewill to come to Christ. A person can come to Christ if the Father draws him Jn 6:44. This drawing is the the Sovereign Power and Grace of the Holy Spirit of God !

:Nono:

Without choice, sincere love is not possible. Love manifested in a bell jar without freewill is akin to Stockholm syndrome.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So freewill is a lie of the devil, man has no freewill to come to Christ. A person can come to Christ if the Father draws him Jn 6:44. This drawing is the the Sovereign Power and Grace of the Holy Spirit of God !

Does God have free will? Or is he locked into events and can't do anything other than what he predestined?

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