genuineoriginal
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Since you are opposing the truth that God gave us free will, you are declaring yourself to be in bondage to sin and Satan.
Free will is simply....
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Since you are opposing the truth that God gave us free will, you are declaring yourself to be in bondage to sin and Satan.
genuineoriginal
New member
Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That means he is able to choose between righteousness and wickedness using the free will that God gave him.
Adam did not eat of the tree of Total Depravity as all the people that foolishly believe in Original Sin seem to think.
Apparently not.
:chuckle:
And, more like "Ruster, this message from Danoh based on Scripture is hidden from you because Scripture is on your ignore list."
Rom. 5:6-6-8.
Original Sin
Romans 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Regardless of whatever it is that an Augustine or whomever may, or may not have said.
Rom. 5:6-8
genuineoriginal
New member
You seem to be focusing on the wrong verses and taking them completely out of context.
Try these ones.
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: |
Joshua 24:15 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. |
Genesis 4:3-7 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. |
Nope.
That had been this - had had this intent in mind here...
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
In other words...
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Or, to put that another way as to what had been one purpose behind the Law through Behavior...
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
For the fact of the matter is the following underlying issue as the "origin" of sinful Behaviour...
Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
YOU missed the obvious, due to YOUR focus on Behaviour itself.
The verses I posted point back to the "origin" of the sinful fruit (Behavior)
YOU are incorectly focused on the Behaviour.
Said "origin" being "sin which is in my members" - "in the flesh" - "no good thing within" and so on.
Man sins (Behaviour) because he IS a Sinner (Identity); he is NOT a Sinner, because he sins.
Sinner is the Higher Level of abstraction from which all other manifestations of said Higher Level of Identity are to be viewed - adulterer, fornicator, murderer, thief, covetous, wicked, deceiver, lascivious, evil eye, blasphemor, proud, foolish, etc.
Thus, why the need for Rom. 5:6-8 - not after man got his act together - an impossibility given the above words of Christ Himself - but "while we were yet sinners."
Well, I've said my piece on this, any more will be more of the same, based in Scripture.
You'll have to find someone else to attempt to sway to your error.
Rom. 5:6-8.
genuineoriginal
New member
I focus correctly on the heart, which is the seat of faith, and the behavior, which is the expression of faith.
That is a lie from the adversary.
The truth is that it is the act of sinning that turns a man into a sinner, even if that sinning is done only in the heart.
I was taught the same error you are holding onto when I was a child.
But, now that I am a man I have put aside those childish teachings and know for a fact that the vast majority of the Bible contradicts the falsehood of man being sinful from birth due to Original Sin.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Here's what I know about free will. If there's no free will, then all murder and rape convictions are unjust. So there better be free will.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
So what? You quoted a verse, I can do a 'John W' and quote 'Genesis-Revelation' and beat you. Either free will is real, or stop blaming murderers and rapists for murders and rapes. Let them all go free, because it wasn't their fault. Deal with it, Sam Harris.
That is not what that actually means.
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Rom. 5:6-8.
They were all born dead to God already condemned and headed to hell. Let them go if you want it doesn’t change a thing
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Have often noted that myself, on here.
And that was, as that very chapter and the very next one (in other words, both Luke chapters 1 and 2) assert: under the Law Economy.
Earlier in chapter one, the guy is fine: per the Law.
While later, in the same chapter, when he fails to believe the Angel Gabriel, he is punished for it.
You're still off on what that verse you cited from Romans 3 (that "all have sinned") is actually talking about.
Rom. 5:6-8.
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Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Are you saying that murder and rape are no big deal?
The act of rape appears as the word ravished in scripture. It appears as a warning of judgement upon the wives and daughters of men who are disobedient. It is in fact a curse that is guaranteed to bring shame upon the family and especially the father or husband.
Murder is of course death and I'm sure you know what the wages of sin are.
The rapist and murderer are instruments of punishment in the hands of the Eternal Almighty. He uses the wicked to punish the wicked and society lives in dread and fear.
"Yah Veh hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
What I’m saying is that an infant is born dead to God, headed to hell before they know right from wrong. What part of that don’t you understand?
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