Foundation.

[marhig]

Romans chapters 9-11 are addressing the nation of Israel. When you yank verses out of their context, you mock God, and you play right into satan's hands.

Paul is speaking to the gentiles.

Romans 11 verse 13

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Then the verses I quoted are in those verses after where he says that he is speaking to the gentiles.

I think you need to read Romans 11 again!

 

[glorydaz]

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk after the Spirit.

Jesus' words are Spirit, and obeying those words is how we walk after the Spirit.

No. Guess again.

 

[God's Truth]

No. Guess again.

It is not a guess it is the truth.

 

[patrick jane]

Romans 11

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off

Galatians 3:3 KJV -

 

[marhig]

Galatians 3:3 KJV -

Galatians 3:3

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Exactly how can we begin in the Spirit and then be made perfect in our flesh? We can't, we have to turn from our flesh, and be cleansed by the Spirit and worship God in Spirit and in truth.

Look at verse 4

Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

 

[patrick jane]

Galatians 3:3

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Exactly how can we begin in the Spirit and then be made perfect in our flesh? We can't, we have turned turn from our flesh, and be cleansed by the Spirit and worship God in Spirit and in truth.

Look at verse 4

Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Colossians 1:21-22 KJV -

 

[glorydaz]

Paul is speaking to the gentiles.

Verse 13

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Then the verses I quoted are in those verses after where he is speaking to the gentiles.

I think you need to read Romans 11 again!

The Gentiles as a NATION. I think you need to read a few commentaries on that chapter, because I'm positive you will never figure it out on your own. Go find a thread on it....listen to what those who have been in the word for years have to say.

Even those natural branches which were cut off.....look what Paul says about them at the very beginning of that chapter.

Romans 11:1-2 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,​

Here we see again, Paul is talking about all Gentile nations, and how they obtained mercy when salvation by grace would be opened up to them (through the preaching of the Gospel).

Romans 11:30-32 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.​

 

[marhig]

Colossians 1:21-22 KJV -

Colossians 1:23 the very next verse says IF ye continue in faith grounded and settled and not be moved away from the hope of the gospel.

Verse 23

IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

 

[marhig]

The Gentiles as a NATION. I think you need to read a few commentaries on that chapter, because I'm positive you will never figure it out on your own. Go find a thread on it....listen to what those who have been in the word for years have to say.

Even those natural branches which were cut off.....look what Paul says about them at the very beginning of that chapter.

Romans 11:1-2 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,​

Here we see again, Paul is talking about all Gentile nations, and how they obtained mercy when salvation by grace would be opened up to them (through the preaching of the Gospel).

Romans 11:30-32 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.​

I think the you need to stop twisting what Paul is saying to suit your beliefs!

Paul clearly says he is speaking to the gentiles. He says I am speaking to you gentiles, how can he then not be speaking to the gentiles? The branches grafted in are the gentiles.

And if God can cut off the natural branches,(the Jews) he can cut off those who are grafted in also.(the gentiles) If they don't continue in his goodness and live by his will!

Just as it clearly says in Romans 11!

 

[glorydaz]

We have free will GD we can choose to do the will of God or not. There are many verses in the Bible that show that we can turn away from God.

How can you even think that those who live according to the flesh after knowing the truth are still saved?
Have you read Romans 1 lately? These were people who knew God, not people in ignorance. Would you say that they were forever saved?

I'd say you don't have a clue about who is actually saved and who just claims to be saved. Believers don't live according to the flesh BECAUSE they are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit.

Romans 1 is talking about how man is created with a conscience, when they go against their conscience and sin, they become sinners. People are saved when they obey the Gospel....which means they believe it, trusting the Lord Jesus Christ. When that happens they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and become God's workmanship. We receive the free gift and have signed on for life.

Now, I've asked you to read this before, but you can't have. Try again to hear what Paul is saying. These are facts...not merely possibilities. When the Spirit of Christ dwells in us, we are given eternal life. He paid the wages of our sin (which is death), and the gift of God is eternal life. Romans 6:23

Romans 8:9-10 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

You doubt because you refuse to believe what God Himself tells you through His word. You either believe what is written or you make up stuff on your own like God's UNtruth does.

 

[marhig]

I'd say you don't have a clue about who is actually saved and who just claims to be saved. Believers don't live according to the flesh BECAUSE they are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit.

Romans 1 is talking about how man is created with a conscience, when they go against their conscience and sin, they become sinners. People are saved when they obey the Gospel....which means they believe it, trusting the Lord Jesus Christ. When that happens they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and become God's workmanship. We receive the free gift and have signed on for life.

Now, I've asked you to read this before, but you can't have. Try again to hear what Paul is saying. These are facts...not merely possibilities. When the Spirit of Christ dwells in us, we are given eternal life. He paid the wages of our sin (which is death), and the gift of God is eternal life. Romans 6:23

Romans 8:9-10 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

You doubt because you refuse to believe what God Himself tells you through His word. You either believe what is written or you make up stuff on your own like God's UNtruth does.

How can you not see that people can turn away from God. I'm not talking about God turning from them, but them from God?

Look at these verses in Romans 1, those are not people who don't know God, they are clearly those who know God, know the truth and turn away!

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, WHEN THEY KNEW GOD, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[God's Truth]

Galatians 3:3

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Exactly how can we begin in the Spirit and then be made perfect in our flesh? We can't, we have to turn from our flesh, and be cleansed by the Spirit and worship God in Spirit and in truth.

Look at verse 4

Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

They think Paul was rebuking the Galatians for obeying Jesus.lol

Paul was rebuking the Galatians by being talked into observing Jewish special days and getting circumcised by the Jews.

Galatians 5:2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.


See, the Jews used to have to do the ceremonial/purification works to clean themselves, now faith in Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins we repent of. The Judaizers talked the Galatians into not trusting that Jesus' blood made them clean, they talked them into doing the old ceremonial works of the law.

 

[marhig]

They think Paul was rebuking the Galatians for obeying Jesus.lol

Paul was rebuking the Galatians by being talked into observing Jewish special days and getting circumcised by the Jews.

Galatians 5:2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.


See, the Jews used to have to do the ceremonial/purification works to clean themselves, now faith in Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins we repent of. The Judaizers talked the Galatians into not trusting that Jesus' blood made them clean, they talked them into doing the old ceremonial works of the law.

How on earth can that verse mean that Paul was rebuking the Galatians for obeying Jesus?

 

[God's Truth]

How on earth can that verse mean that Paul was rebuking the Galatians for obeying Jesus?

It is strange how they see the scriptures, or should I say how they don't see the scriptures.
They think that Paul in Galatians 3:3 is rebuking them for thinking obedience did anything for them.
They don't grasp that Paul is rebuking them for being talked into the ceremonial works of the law.

Galatians 3:3

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[glorydaz]

I think the you need to stop twisting what Paul is saying to suit your beliefs!

Paul clearly says he is speaking to the gentiles. He says I am speaking to you gentiles, how can he then not be speaking to the gentiles? The branches grafted in are the gentiles.

And if God can cut off the natural branches,(the Jews) he can cut off those who are grafted in also.(the gentiles) If they don't continue in his goodness and live by his will!

Just as it clearly says in Romans 11!

I know, when you don't understand something, it's hard to admit it.
It's always easier to rail on the messenger.

So, how could I be twisting what Paul said when I quoted him exactly?


You do know what a nation is, don't you? :think:
You do understand that "Gentiles" is speaking of a large group of people?
Whole nations, even?


If the Gentiles were to reject God, then they would not obtain mercy. The offer would be rescinded. They would go back to being a people without God in the world...."ye in times past have not believed God,"

 

[God's Truth]

I know, when you don't understand something, it's hard to admit it.
It's always easier to rail on the messenger.

So, how could I be twisting what Paul said when I quoted him exactly?


You do know what a nation is, don't you? :think:
You do understand that "Gentiles" is speaking of a large group of people?
Whole nations, even?


If the Gentiles were to reject God, then they would not obtain mercy. The offer would be rescinded. They would go back to being a people without God in the world...."ye in times past have not believed God,"

Individuals are grafted in and individuals can be cut off.

 

[glorydaz]

How can you not see that people can turn away from God. I'm not talking about God turning from them, but them from God?

Look at these verses in Romans 1, those are not people who don't know God, they are clearly those who know God, know the truth and turn away!

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, WHEN THEY KNEW GOD, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Yeah, well you just keep on doubting God, and thinking all those unsaved are the saved that fell away. And you keep listening to God's unTruth. Before you know it, God will give you over to a reprobate mind.....all because you don't listen. Unteachable.


You can't even figure out Romans 1, for crying out loud. :doh:

 

[glorydaz]

Individuals are grafted in and individuals can be cut off.

So says one of satan's ministers.

 

[God's Truth]

So says one of satan's ministers.

Not every single Jew was cut off, just like not every single Gentile will be cut off if one Gentile falls away.

 

[glorydaz]

Not every single Jew was cut off, just like not every single Gentile will be cut off if one Gentile falls away.

Well, it's not something you have to worry about, is it?

You can't lose what you don't have. :chew: