God's Truth
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You are wrong about this.
Our bodies need sleep. It does not mean sleeping is sin.
Mark 14:38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness
- Thread starter Psalmist
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You are wrong about this.
Our bodies need sleep. It does not mean sleeping is sin.
Mark 14:38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
IMJerusha
New member
Verse 7. "thorn"..."messenger of Satan"..."torment"
It's not rocket science here, okay?
IMJerusha
New member
why is it so important to believe paul didn't have a problem with sin?
IMJerusha
New member
I never stated that sleeping is sin and neither did Yeshua. Context is everything. Sin is everything that goes against God's Will. You can't possibly believe that a messenger of HaSatan is delivering anything according to God's Will. That's ludicrous.
IMJerusha
New member
Good question. If Paul was sinless, what did he need Yeshua for?
we are not talking about paul being sinless
there is complete agreement that he was not
we are talking about his inability to stop sinning
You consistently read your notions into things, and then follow that with isolating a passage that it assert what you have read into things.
There you go again; reading into things.
Word based mystic
New member
consider Job.
God has satan leashed from going too far.
But
1 cor 5:5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.
Job 1:11 But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face." 12Then the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.
God releases the leash for His greater will of testing, proving a point to the demonic and turning someone over to satan so that that person will have his sinful nature destroyed and he himself be saved on the day of judgement.
1 samuel 16:23 So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.
evil spirit from God.
Because ImJu is using Paul as a licence for her pet sin THAT is what she accuses us of doing which we strenuously deny...but she admits to it.
So as the Apostle wrote he was blaspheming? c'mon where are your brains?
You are kidding of course.
So when he bade others to be perfect holiness, he himself was tormented by sin...give me a break
God's Truth
New member
deleted double post
whether or not paul had a problem with sin should have nothing to do with her
what are you thinking?
God's Truth
New member
YOU said WEAKNESS was sin.
Jesus said they did not stay away because their flesh was WEAK.
I said that scripture proves you are wrong and that weakness is NOT SIN.
You need to stop making things up that I did not say.
Show where I said that or repent.
God's Truth
New member
Bearing false witness against Paul matters.
The difference I take with that, respectfully, is that the consistent mixing of passages like those, though perhaps well-intended, is still the result of not having understood at some point that passages like those two are applying what could be referred to as a "same, and yet, different" principle, or general rule of thumb.
Such is often the result of unawareness of and or the teaching or application, of the principle such passages both follow, that at the same time differ in their application.
In those two passages, for example, the principle, or general rule of thumb is the same - the need to reconcile with others as unto the Lord. The issue in both, being that service as unto the Lord.
No problem there - they are both about that.
The problem enters when both passages are then taken; based on the principle they share in common, as meaning that both passages are addressed to the same people as to how said principle is to be applied in each passage.
Its clear from other passages that are actually meant to act as key passages to understanding the above kinds of passages, for example, that in the above, the one passage is applying the principle of service as unto the Lord under the Law, while the other is doing so, this side of Grace.
Study what each entails within each's respective application of the principle, and you'll find they differ in their application, though their principle, or general rue of thumb, is the same in both.
It is this that we of Mid-Acts are referring to when we speak of "rightly dividing" [laying out aright] "the word of truth" - in light of "the truth of the gospel" this side of "the Law for righteousness."
For, this side of that... Romans 3:
19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth," Rom. 10:4.
The principle of reconciling as unto the Lord, is the same, in both systems, but its application differs in each.
But given how clouded over by the traditions of men these differences were being clouded over, even in the Apostle Paul's day, thus, his addressing them, these differences have been so clouded over that, as a result, there is constant need for their being affirmed.
Note the Apostle Paul's writing on these kinds of clouding over, and the need to, as well as to how to, guard against same.
2 Timothy 2:
1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Of course because she is saying if so great an apostle as Paul was under the dominion of sin what hope can she have?
Paul was one who could say "I know of nothing against me"
It is important, I believe in victory over sin, ImJu and her buddies believe victory can be achieved by obeying the commandments, but the commandments are not given for that purpose, they are given to ENLARGE sin....They put sin under a magnifying glass
The more they say "thou shalt not" the more we want to and the more the law says "thou shalt" the more we do not want to.
Not because the law is evil but the weakness is in us
So the devil chases our weak flesh with his temptations, they resist, the devil persists and sooner or later the sin they do not want to do is the very thing they do....and they melt like a plate of jelly.
Then they are under condemnation. Then they start condemning everybody else. it is a viscious circle.
This is just the nature of law obeyers...they ALL do it.
But Paul tells us that the handwriting which was against us has been nailed to the cross...it's agone....so the devil no longer has anything to tempt us with, nothing to arouse sin [which is the flesh rebelling against God's commands] Sin is TOTALLY defeated at the cross.