ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness

[IMJerusha]

That should be every Christian's objective, memorization of the Scriptures.

2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
​

Oh, I don't know. I would much rather a man who loved God with all his heart, soul, strength, mind, and his neighbor as himself as opposed to a man who had the Scriptures memorized but it is important to know and understand God's Word. (1 Corinthians 13)

 

[IMJerusha]

Forgiving and Forgiveness -- Is a real healing experience. A great release for soul and spirit of both parties. Both, the forgiving and forgiven are equally blessed in the forgiveness and the forgiving one to other, as long as it is done in the love, truth, for real, anything other is just an act.​

I have learned that sometimes forgiveness can be just an act at first...an act of obedience. Oftentimes, on the heels of that act of obedience comes the promise of God's Love and the strength of the Ruach. Sometimes things happen that we can't get past emotionally and all we can manage are the words when our hearts are not in it. God has a way of bringing that simple act of forming the words to fruition, teaching us how to overcome through Him. It can be a long process but He has all of our time in His Hands.​

 

[Psalmist]

I have learned that sometimes forgiveness can be just an act at first...an act of obedience. Oftentimes, on the heels of that act of obedience comes the promise of God's Love and the strength of the Ruach. Sometimes things happen that we can't get past emotionally and all we can manage are the words when our hearts are not in it. God has a way of bringing that simple act of forming the words to fruition, teaching us how to overcome through Him. It can be a long process but He has all of our time in His Hands.

That too.​

 

[IMJerusha]

That too.​

You mean when there's nothing but emptiness behind it? Sure, that happens.

When my folks were killed, I went to the man who'd baptized me. I went because I couldn't rise above the grief and the pain of betrayal but most of all, the anger. I wanted revenge and I could get it. I had the means. I'd never been so consumed with rage and hatred. It was frightening. Nothing would soothe it. He told me God wanted me to forgive...not for the sake of those who hurt my parents but rather for my own sake. I had no clue how I was going to do that. He looked me in the eye and asked me if I wanted to. Honestly? I thought, no...and yes. So, for the sake of the part of me that wanted to, I spoke the words and the part that didn't want to I entrusted to God. I haven't forgotten nor do I think He expects me to. I acted in obedience, not agreement, and He has blessed my effort. I'm not 100% but I am no longer consumed.

 

[brinny]

You mean when there's nothing but emptiness behind it? Sure, that happens.

When my folks were killed, I went to the man who'd baptized me. I went because I couldn't rise above the grief and the pain of betrayal but most of all, the anger. I wanted revenge and I could get it. I had the means. I'd never been so consumed with rage and hatred. It was frightening. Nothing would soothe it. He told me God wanted me to forgive...not for the sake of those who hurt my parents but rather for my own sake. I had no clue how I was going to do that. He looked me in the eye and asked me if I wanted to. Honestly? I thought, no...and yes. So, for the sake of the part of me that wanted to, I spoke the words and the part that didn't want to I entrusted to God. I haven't forgotten nor do I think He expects me to. I acted in obedience, not agreement, and He has blessed my effort. I'm not 100% but I am no longer consumed.

What a beautiful testimony, sister.

 

[aikido7]

Forgive oneself, forgive others and ask God for help with both.

Jesus forgave and urged us to do the same. He offered and granted salvation for many--long before he died on a cross in Jerusalem.

He and John the Baptizer believed in a God of mercy that wants repentance, not a blood sacrifice.

Jesus, quoting Hosea: "I desire mercy and not sacrifice."

But we cannot and should not ignore the other tradition: God is a jealous God of justice and demands the spilling of blood on the altar (or the cross).

We have to take both traditions seriously--since they are both in the Bible.

 

[Aimiel]

If we ALWAYS walk in forgiveness, we're walking in love, which is walking in God's Presence, since He is the love that we feel. Anything you know, feel or have even heard about Love is God. He is the Love you feel. He is the Goodness. He is Holy. Thank God for His Goodness. Thank God for His Holiness. Thank God for His Great Love!!! :thumb:

 

[aikido7]

If we ALWAYS walk in forgiveness, we're walking in love, which is walking in God's Presence, since He is the love that we feel. Anything you know, feel or have even heard about Love is God. He is the Love you feel. He is the Goodness. He is Holy. Thank God for His Goodness. Thank God for His Holiness. Thank God for His Great Love!!! :thumb:

What a nice post!

 

[God's Truth]

If we ALWAYS walk in forgiveness, we're walking in love, which is walking in God's Presence, since He is the love that we feel. Anything you know, feel or have even heard about Love is God. He is the Love you feel. He is the Goodness. He is Holy. Thank God for His Goodness. Thank God for His Holiness. Thank God for His Great Love!!! :thumb:

That is right. When you are walking in love, you are obeying all of the commandments...you are not murdering, stealing, committing adultery, etc.

 

[heir]

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.​

Romans 1:16 says this:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And where does Paul declare the gospel of Christ? Right here:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV

Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

That is not the gospel of Christ. It does not tell us the WHY of the cross. IOW, it does not tell us why Christ died for us.

Romans 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We aren't saved by calling on the name of the Lord, but saved by the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of God's promise in Christ by the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV). This happens when one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (Ephesians 1:13 KJV), which again, is the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV).

Then you need to take Psalm 23 from your Bible and any place else where

we are referred to as sheep

, for you are like black sheep of the fold, a fence crawler sheep that is filled rebelion and cares not for the Chief Shepherd.

No, Psalmist. Gentiles (blessed as per Genesis 12:3 KJV) are referred to as dogs ( Mark 7:25-27 KJV). We Gentiles (cursed as per Genesis 12:3 KJV) were aliens from the commonwealth and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. So you might want to say double dogs.

So Paul is greater than Jesus Christ.

Don't be ridiculous. You're supposed to be considering what Paul says (2 Timothy 2:7 KJV). He never used the term "shepherd". We don't follow a shepherd. We follow Paul (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV) according to the revelation(s) (2 Corinthians 12:1 KJV) given him by the appearing of the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV) not Christ according to the flesh (2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV).

I probably do not, but I didn't say it. If you do not agree, then you are found to be fighting against Christ, because Jesus Christ said it.

Mark 11:25-26

It's you who is "fighting against Christ". You are not approving things that are excellent when applying Mark 11:25-26 unto us when it's not (Matthew 15:24 KJV) and are therefore an offence (Phillippianns 1:9-10 KJV). As I said before so say I now again, our forgiving another is NOT required for God to forgive us. He already forgave us for Christ's sake (Romans 4:25 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV, Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV). I hope you stop frustrating the grace of God in the dispensation of the grace of God by adding a requirement to God's forgiveness (Galatians 2:21 KJV).

Now the devil is Christian, and helping Jesus.

You are doing the work of the deceiver by telling others they need to forgive to be forgiven by God. That is NOT our gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV). It is NOT the gospel that Paul preached (Galatians 1:8-9 KJV). Stop it!

1 Cor. 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

That's the foundation Paul laid 1 Corinthians 3:10 KJV. You ought to take heed how you buildeth thereupon.

Paul's gospel.

is 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV and notice:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

You want us to believe Paul's gospel was preached in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (a "time past" and future message for Israel)? It wasn't. It is a "but now" message!​

 

[Totton Linnet]

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

I agree dear brother, I think many blessings are held up because of unforgiveness. It is best to forgive at once and better by far to set our will to not take offence in the first place.

 

[Psalmist]

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV

What it reads like with verse 5 added.

1 Cor. 15:1-5 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: ​

The seperate addition of 6-10 would have been a nice addition too.

1 Cor. 15:6-10 (KJV)
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Then there is a better understanding of what is being dealt with.​

You are Mad.
​

 

[IMJerusha]

Romans 1:16 says this:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And where does Paul declare the gospel of Christ? Right here:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
That is not the gospel of Christ. It does not tell us the WHY of the cross. IOW, it does not tell us why Christ died for us.

We aren't saved by calling on the name of the Lord, but saved by the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of God's promise in Christ by the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV). This happens when one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (Ephesians 1:13 KJV), which again, is the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV).


No, Psalmist. Gentiles (blessed as per Genesis 12:3 KJV) are referred to as dogs ( Mark 7:25-27 KJV). We Gentiles (cursed as per Genesis 12:3 KJV) were aliens from the commonwealth and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. So you might want to say double dogs.

Don't be ridiculous. You're supposed to be considering what Paul says (2 Timothy 2:7 KJV). He never used the term "shepherd". We don't follow a shepherd. We follow Paul (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV) according to the revelation(s) (2 Corinthians 12:1 KJV) given him by the appearing of the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV) not Christ according to the flesh (2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV).


It's you who is "fighting against Christ". You are not approving things that are excellent when applying Mark 11:25-26 unto us when it's not (Matthew 15:24 KJV) and are therefore an offence (Phillippianns 1:9-10 KJV). As I said before so say I now again, our forgiving another is NOT required for God to forgive us. He already forgave us for Christ's sake (Romans 4:25 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV, Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV). I hope you stop frustrating the grace of God in the dispensation of the grace of God by adding a requirement to God's forgiveness (Galatians 2:21 KJV).



You are doing the work of the deceiver by telling others they need to forgive to be forgiven by God. That is NOT our gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV). It is NOT the gospel that Paul preached (Galatians 1:8-9 KJV). Stop it!


That's the foundation Paul laid 1 Corinthians 3:10 KJV. You ought to take heed how you buildeth thereupon.

is 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV and notice:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

You want us to believe Paul's gospel was preached in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (a "time past" and future message for Israel)? It wasn't. It is a "but now" message!

No, by the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus Christ, YOU stop!

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matthew 6:14-15

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me-- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." John 10:14-16

"I have other sheep that are not of this pen." That would be Gentiles. And more than this, you are ignoring the many numbers of Gentiles who were already believers, already members of the House of Israel by God's decree. You take Yeshua's Words and spit on them and then proclaim that Paul gave us something different, something better. Yeshua is the gate for His sheep and only through Him are His sheep saved, whether of one pen or another. You claim to follow Paul but you don't because you have declared the Shepherd's Voice to be null and void in the face of Paul. What you proclaim are the words of strangers and His sheep will NOT follow a stranger's voice. Paul did not proclaim the words of a stranger's voice but rather the Words of the Voice of THE Shepherd. "I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved." Not through Paul are we saved, we are saved through Yeshua!

When Paul claimed "my Gospel", Paul was declaring Yeshua in the same manner as the Prophets declared Yeshua, as John the Baptizer declared Yeshua, as every Disciple including Paul and every believer declared/declares Yeshua. You declare Paul and the Paul you declare is not Yeshua's Paul but someone else. You don't rightly divide. You are just divisive.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I want to repeat my appreciation for the topic of this thread

we must forgive

we must forgive those who look for passages that might eliminate this requirement

forgiving is very important
thanks again to psalmist for this thread

Totally

 

[bybee]

I agree dear brother, I think many blessings are held up because of unforgiveness. It is best to forgive at once and better by far to set our will to not take offence in the first place.

This a key necessity. Offense at evil is necessary. But to take offense at the inevitable "Slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" or to "Joust at windmills" is painful, time consuming and generally fruitless.

 

[Totton Linnet]

If we ALWAYS walk in forgiveness, we're walking in love, which is walking in God's Presence, since He is the love that we feel. Anything you know, feel or have even heard about Love is God. He is the Love you feel. He is the Goodness. He is Holy. Thank God for His Goodness. Thank God for His Holiness. Thank God for His Great Love!!! :thumb:

That's great

 

[glorydaz]

No, by the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus Christ, YOU stop!

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matthew 6:14-15

You shouldn't try to mix law and grace, it only makes you look like a fool. The law always says IF and grace never does. The law is performance based and grace is a gift.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

True believers have already been given eternal life, and that life is in the Son (1 Jn.5:11).

And the Lord Jesus said that all those who to whom He gives eternal life will never perish (Jn.10:28)..

So at this moment anyone who truly believes already has eternal life in the Son and will never perish.

Jamie, that means that all true believers possess eternal security.

Rejoice!

'Pisteo' the Greek word translated to believe, has an implication of trust, this is where the heresy comes in, trusting is much more than believing. Im learning to trust and in this I rejoice... He's teaching me. He taught me to forgive by trusting Him.

 

[fzappa13]

Why would your pattern for forgiving another come from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? It's not written to anyone in the dispensation of the grace of God. It is written TO the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to whom Jesus was sent while on earth (Matthew 15:24 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV).

Our pattern for forgiving one another is that we should because God for Christ's sake hath forgiven us.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

And as to God not forgiving us our trespasses, just how many of your trespasses do you believe are not forgiven already (Colossians 2:13 KJV)?

I'm surprised at the OP coming from you, Psalmist. I thought you knew better; especially considering you are a chaplain. You really need to get into Romans through Philemon and consider what Paul says (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV).

It's been a while since I've seen a more shining example of the hubris that is Dispensationalism.

 

[IMJerusha]

You shouldn't try to mix law and grace, it only makes you look like a fool. The law always says IF and grace never does. The law is performance based and grace is a gift.

Yes, Grace does say "IF" and that "IF" also came out of Yeshua's own mouth. John 15:6 Do you think Yeshua the fool, as well?