ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness

[Psalmist]

Why would your pattern for forgiving another come from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? It's not written to anyone in the dispensation of the grace of God. It is written TO the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to whom Jesus was sent while on earth (Matthew 15:24 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV).

Our pattern for forgiving one another is that we should because God for Christ's sake hath forgiven us.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

And as to God not forgiving us our trespasses, just how many of your trespasses do you believe are not forgiven already (Colossians 2:13 KJV)?

I'm surprised at the OP coming from you, Psalmist. I thought you knew better; especially considering you are a chaplain. You really need to get into Romans through Philemon and consider what Paul says (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV).

The four Gospels bring the message of hope to a lost and dying world, to anyone who will listen. They exposed to the truth John 14:6, we always hope it will lead to Romans 10:9-10, 13, Saved!

John 10:16
"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

Acts 28:28-31
28 "Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!" 29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed and had a great dispute among themselves. 30 Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house, and received all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him. ​

 

[Psalmist]

are you going to answer the question?

what did Jesus accomplish with his suffering and death on the cross
if
the Father will not forgive you
if
you do not forgive

Everybody knows that...

Matthew 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Mark 11:25-26
25 "And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." ​

What did Jesus dying on the cross accomplish...

Colossians 2:14
"...having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."

Hebrews 9:22
And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

John 19:28-30
28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst!" 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. ​

Judging and forgiving...

Luke 6:37
"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Again your reference.
Ephesians 4:32
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you. ​

 

[chrysostom]

Everybody knows that...

Matthew 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Mark 11:25-26
25 "And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." ​

What did Jesus dying on the cross accomplish...

Colossians 2:14
"...having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."

Hebrews 9:22
And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

John 19:28-30
28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst!" 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. ​

Judging and forgiving...

Luke 6:37
"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Again your reference.
Ephesians 4:32
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you. ​

so we agree
but
you know the scripture

nice going

 

[Psalmist]

so we agree
but
you know the scripture

nice going

That should be every Christian's objective, memorization of the Scriptures.

2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
​

 

[brinny]

Forgiving and Forgiveness

This is a precious thread and a necessary one, for "forgiveness" is so easily mis-understood. I used to think it meant that one must let the perpetrator off scot-free and that it was wrong to be "aware" of the pain that one might have after being victimized. Therefore the one doing the "forgiving" was further "victimized" because it wasn't ok to process and seek help to deal with trauma or any number of abuses that one might have experienced.

God's inexplicable grace is necessary and His timing, so that He can work in the heart and mind of the one "wronged" as HE gives the power (through Him) to genuinely forgive.

Traumatized victims can only do this by God's inexplicable power and grace. Otherwise they are further victimized and traumatized because they are blamed even moreso, for "not forgiving" "on demand".

Through God's inexplicable grace and His perfect timing i have been able to forgive my psychotic and violent alcoholic father and my mom, who hurt me in numerous and damaging ways.

What i keep in mind (but was oblivious to previously) is that there is a "bigger" picture here. The culprit is the one behind the perpetrator, and that is the "enemy". It ties into spiritual warfare.

Woundings from trauma and pain can result in hatred. It just can. The one hating after being traumatized and wounded needs God's arms and healing, not condemnation.

God's balance and timing in all of this is exquiste. It is HE Who raises beauty from ashes. And He does this in His own, inexplicable and perfect timing.

How glorious is THAT?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Let's really think about this.

Your Father in heaven does not forgive unless you first do it to others.
Or in other words, if you don't do it first, God won't do it for you.
It's a tit-for-tat arrangement.

But then we have:

Luke 23 KJV
(34) Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.​

If Mark 11:25-26 is a blanket rule (without exception) to all for all time, the question naturally arises ....... if Jesus only did His Father's will of not forgiving any unless they first forgave others, then why would Jesus ask the Father to forgo that tit-for-tat conditional rule and forgive these folks before they had forgiven all others?
:think:

We receive mercy every second we are alive. We receive reconciliation by even more mercy of the Cross. Christianity is not about a one time event of repentance... It is a lifetime of following Jesus... Of repenting, of surrendering to the Holy Spirit and His transforming power in us, in our hearts and our minds.
"And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. This comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18

After following Jesus for many years I was severely wronged. I refused to forgive... I was full of hate... The fruit of the Spirit was gone. It was only with His continued conviction and consequence of my sin... A personal ride though Hell... Did I relent and repent and find Him again. Say what you will, but I know I was not safe living in rejection of God.

 

[Psalmist]

Forgiving and Forgiveness

This is a precious thread and a necessary one, for "forgiveness" is so easily mis-understood. I used to think it meant that one must let the perpetrator off scot-free and that it was wrong to be "aware" of the pain that one might have after being victimized. Therefore the one doing the "forgiving" was further "victimized" because it wasn't ok to process and seek help to deal with trauma or any number of abuses that one might have experienced.

God's inexplicable grace is necessary and His timing, so that He can work in the heart and mind of the one "wronged" as HE gives the power (through Him) to genuinely forgive.

Traumatized victims can only do this by God's inexplicable power and grace. Otherwise they are further victimized and traumatized because they are blamed even more so, for "not forgiving" "on demand".

Through God's inexplicable grace and His perfect timing i have been able to forgive my psychotic and violent alcoholic father and my mom, who hurt me in numerous and damaging ways.

What i keep in mind (but was oblivious to previously) is that there is a "bigger" picture here. The culprit is the one behind the perpetrator, and that is the "enemy". It ties into spiritual warfare.

Woundings from trauma and pain can result in hatred. It just can. The one hating after being traumatized and wounded needs God's arms and healing, not condemnation.

God's balance and timing in all of this is exquisite. It is HE Who raises beauty from ashes. And He does this in His own, inexplicable and perfect timing.

How glorious is THAT?

Thank you kindly.

Forgiving and Forgiveness -- Is a real healing experience. A great release for soul and spirit of both parties. Both, the forgiving and forgiven are equally blessed in the forgiveness and the forgiving one to other, as long as it is done in the love, truth, for real, anything other is just an act.

As for God's balance and timing it is perfect and right. When we know of wrong and do nothing at that time we leave it with the Lord; then when the time comes to deal with it, that time is right.

The person wronged forgives immediately, and what marvelous release and joy there is; the other person that was in the wrong was forgiven sometime later, there was no hostility, just "you are forgiven" another instance of sweet release and joy for both persons. We can really be surprised by what power the Lord gives to help in forgiving and forgiveness by the Holy Spirit.

Believe me it's a fact, because I know real forgiving and forgiveness.​

 

[brinny]

Forgiving and Forgiveness

Forgiving and Forgiveness -- Is a real healing experience. A great release for soul and spirit of both parties. Both, the forgiving and forgiven are equally blessed in the forgiveness and the forgiving one to other, as long as it is done in the love, truth, for real, anything other is just an act.

As for God's balance and timing it is perfect and right. When we know of wrong and do nothing at that time we leave it with the Lord; then when the time comes to deal with it, that time is right.

The person wronged forgives immediately, and what marvelous release and joy there is; the other person that was in the wrong was forgiven sometime later, there was no hostility, just "you are forgiven" another instance of sweet release and joy for both persons. We can really be surprised by what power the Lord gives to help in forgiving and forgiveness by the Holy Spirit.

Believe me it's a fact, because I know real forgiving and forgiveness.​

Amen about:

We can really be surprised by what power the Lord gives to help in forgiving and forgiveness by the Holy Spirit.

It would have been impossible for me to forgive my mom and father in my own power, and i was not inclined to, and couldn't have cared less if i did not forgive either one. I hated and despised BOTH of them. HOWEVER, God's Holy Spirit did this inexplicable thing:

"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." ~(Romans 5;5)

What i realized later is that God was breaking the chains and generations of hatred and the enemy's "stranglehold" on my family, by working in my heart as He enabled me to do something i NEVER EVER intended to do. And that is to forgive my father and my mother.

Forgiveness is a weapon of sorts that disarms the enemy (Satan and his minions). He has no defense against it.

In essence God used "forgiveness" to break the curse that was surely on my family for generations.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Does that mean that if a believer cannot force himself to forgive someone then he will lose his salvation?

 

[Psalmist]

Does that mean that if a believer cannot force himself to forgive someone then he will lose his salvation?

Great question, I need to prayerfully study it. I believe were not left without answers, sometimes it is like digging for treasure, and as you dig for treasure you find other treasures of truth.

I'll be back.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Great question, I need to prayerfully study it. I believe were not left without answers, sometimes it is like digging for treasure, and as you dig for treasure you find other treasures of truth.

I'll be back.​

Please allow me to help you. The Apostle John tells the Christian that they already have eternal life:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).​

And the Lord Jesus says that those to whom He gives eternal life will never perish:

"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).​

So once a person has received eternal life then he has eternal security and cannot lose his salvation.

Hopefully, this will help you answer my question.

 

[aikido7]

Forgiveness and repentance before a God of mercy was Jesus' tradition. The later tradition of a blood sacrifice came later with the Aaonite priestly cult in Moses' time.

Jesus forgave, saved and healed many long before he died on the cross.

 

[chrysostom]

I want to repeat my appreciation for the topic of this thread

we must forgive

we must forgive those who look for passages that might eliminate this requirement

forgiving is very important
thanks again to psalmist for this thread

 

[brinny]

Forgiving and Forgiveness

I want to repeat my appreciation for the topic of this thread

we must forgive

we must forgive those who look for passages that might eliminate this requirement

forgiving is very important
thanks again to psalmist for this thread

God is a FAITHFUL and GOOD God. He ENABLES us to forgive when it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to do so in our own strength, amen? And i agree about this thread. Forgiveness is a precious, healing, and glorious thing. To everything there is a "season", amen?

God bless you brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God.

 

[chrysostom]

Forgiving and Forgiveness



God is a FAITHFUL and GOOD God. He ENABLES us to forgive when it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to do so in our own strength, amen? And i agree about this thread. Forgiveness is a precious, healing, and glorious thing. To everything there is a "season", amen?

God bless you brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God.

amen?
you may be missing the most important part
you have to ask for that help
you have to start with that

 

[brinny]

amen?
you may be missing the most important part
you have to ask for that help
you have to start with that

missing what part and asking for what help specifically?

Thank you kindly.

 

[chrysostom]

missing what part and asking for what help specifically?

Thank you kindly.

asking God to help you forgive others

that should have been very clear

 

[brinny]

asking God to help you forgive others

that should have been very clear

i believe in my previous posts, i already addressed that very thing, brother.

Thank you kindly.

 

[chrysostom]

i believe in my previous posts, i already addressed that very thing, brother.

Thank you kindly.

I guess I missed it

 

[brinny]

I guess I missed it

it's all there, in my posts, honest.....and it addresses exactly what you mentioned brother....

Thank you kindly.