ECT For Those who Think MAD to be False: What is the Gospel?

[Lazy afternoon]

Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

LA

Nobody, I mean NOBODY pays real attention to LA.

You do girly.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I can tell you really haven’t studied Holy Spirit baptism. In scriptures it only happened twice and each time it was for a special purpose and we are told out right what it was.
1) The apostles
Acts 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
2) Cornelius
Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.
In chapter 11 Peter is describing what happened and if you will notice he says the HS fell on them just as it did the apostles “at the beginning”
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
So we have two special situations where the bible tells us people were baptized by the Holy Spirit and each time it was directly from God and evident by speaking in tongues.

Yes there is one baptism and it's water. You’re using 1 Cor. 12:13 and trying to make baptism Holy Spirit baptism. We don’t even have to leave I Cor. to see that doesn’t work. In chapter 1 when Paul says 1:16, now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; it’s clear this is water baptism performed by Paul. I can’t imagine someone claiming Paul performs Holy Spirit baptism.
Still in 1 Cor. if we look at chapter 10 we see Paul describing the baptism of Moses.
10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Twice he says “under the cloud and in the sea”. He is clearly talking about water baptisms.
Then in chapter 12 when Paul says baptism it’s not water but Holy Spirit? What Paul means is that when we are water baptized “in the name of Jesus” the Holy Spirit adds us to the body. For example, in Acts 2: 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
They were baptized then the Spirit added them.

If you would consider 2 Kings 5 where Naaman was cleansed of his leprosy. When he dipped 7 times as told, did the water cleanse his leprosy or God?

Lastly, if you believe we are baptized by the Holy Spirit upon belief, could you please explain why Paul would ask, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
If the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the body upon belief, why would Paul ask "Into what then were you baptized?"

You are right.

People who fight against water baptism, are not baptized with the Holy spirit either.

LA

 

[DAN P]

You are right.

People who fight against water baptism, are not baptized with the Holy spirit either.

LA

Hi and HOW then and how were they BAPTIZED ??

If you read Acts 19:6 Paul LAID his hands hands upon them , by the way there were 12 disciples , THEY Received the POWER of THE ) Holy SPIRIT and the word THE is NOT in the Greek text and they SPAKE in LANGUAGES and PROPHESIED !! THERE WAS NO WATER BAPTISM HERE AT ALL !! shesh and certain BLOVIATING here for sure !!

You need to learn what the Greek Articile ( THE ) MEANS !!


Just Google it and find OUT !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and in Acts 2:41 , the Greek WERE ADDED is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSES and that means Jesus STOPPED to that EKKLESIA / ASSEMBLY because Israel was to be set aside and Acts 13:46 and Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:28 is the proof !!

Wrong. Yes, he stopped adding that day the 3,000 but continued to add.
2:47.... And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

You're only seeing what you want to see!!

Those passages do not say that Israel was "set aside". Individual Jews rejected his message but he still preached to them.

Paul was sent to preach to the Jews as well as Gentiles.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;

What do we see after his Acts 13:46 comment? He preached to Jews.
Acts 14:1 In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks.

And after Acts 18:6? He baptized Jews.
18:7 Then he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God, whose house was next to the synagogue. 8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

After Acts 28:28 while imprisoned he preached to anyone who would listen.
30 And he stayed two full years in his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.

Paul preached the same thing as those before him.
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.
Acts 9:20 Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.

 

[DAN P]

Wrong. Yes, he stopped adding that day the 3,000 but continued to add.
2:47.... And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

You're only seeing what you want to see!!

Those passages do not say that Israel was "set aside". Individual Jews rejected his message but he still preached to them.

Paul was sent to preach to the Jews as well as Gentiles.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;

What do we see after his Acts 13:46 comment? He preached to Jews.
Acts 14:1 In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks.

And after Acts 18:6? He baptized Jews.
18:7 Then he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God, whose house was next to the synagogue. 8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

After Acts 28:28 while imprisoned he preached to anyone who would listen.
30 And he stayed two full years in his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.

Paul preached the same thing as those before him.
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.
Acts 9:20 Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.

Hi and in Acts 2:47 there is the sane Greek word ADDED and still in the IMPERFECT TENSE which just means that Jesus ADDED to that assembly that were NOT SO-CALLED Christians as there were NEVER CHRISTIANOS / CHRISTIANS in the GOSPELS !!

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and in Acts 2:47 there is the sane Greek word ADDED and still in the IMPERFECT TENSE which just means that Jesus ADDED to that assembly that were NOT SO-CALLED Christians as there were NEVER CHRISTIANOS / CHRISTIANS in the GOSPELS !!

This isn't the gospels. This is Acts.

 

[DAN P]

This isn't the gospels. This is Acts.

Hi and you FINALLY GOT ONE RIGHT !!

And Acts is the transition book between the FALL of Israel and the Dispensation of the Grace of God and Jesus and the 12 apostles NEVER Taught Grace as Acts 15:11 reveals !!

Show where the 12 preached GRACE ??

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

If you read Acts 19:6 Paul LAID his hands hands upon them , by the way there were 12 disciples , THEY Received the POWER of THE ) Holy SPIRIT and the word THE is NOT in the Greek text and they SPAKE in LANGUAGES and PROPHESIED !! THERE WAS NO WATER BAPTISM HERE AT ALL !! shesh and certain BLOVIATING here for sure !!

You need to learn what the Greek Articile ( THE ) MEANS !!


Just Google it and find OUT !!

dan p

Tell me, if water isn't involved in becoming a Christian and we are baptized by the Holy Spirit upon belief, then why did Paul ask this question?
Acts 19:2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

If Paul knows that the Holy Spirit baptizes us upon belief, then why would he even ask a question like this???
Acts 19:3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

Why didn't he question the gospel they heard???

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and you FINALLY GOT ONE RIGHT !!

And Acts is the transition book between the FALL of Israel and the Dispensation of the Grace of God and Jesus and the 12 apostles NEVER Taught Grace as Acts 15:11 reveals !!

Show where the 12 preached GRACE ??

dan p

Peter taught the same thing as Paul. Tell me how they are different. Can you preach grace without calling it grace??

Addressing Israel
Peter: 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words;
Paul: 16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel,

Christ descended from David
Peter: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Paul: 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:

Christ died
Peter: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Paul: 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

David saw decay
Peter: 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Paul: 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Christ did not see decay
Peter: 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Paul: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Jesus resurrected
Peter: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up,
Paul: 30 But God raised him from the dead:

People witnessed the resurrection
Peter: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Paul: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.

Forgiveness of sins through Jesus
Peter:
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul:
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Jesus is Israel’s savior
Peter: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Paul: 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:

 

[DAN P]

Tell me, if water isn't involved in becoming a Christian and we are baptized by the Holy Spirit upon belief, then why did Paul ask this question?
Acts 19:2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

If Paul knows that the Holy Spirit baptizes us upon belief, then why would he even ask a question like this???
Acts 19:3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

Why didn't he question the gospel they heard???

Hi and why and HOW did Paul baptism them ??

I have shown you why and HOW and it is OVER your head , so read How Paul baptized them in Acts 19:6 , Paul Baptized them BY THE LAYING HIS HANDS and the receive the POWER OF Holy Spirit and spake in TONGUES and Prophesying , JUST like at PENTECOST and as verse 2 says ,they have not heard of the Holy Spirit !!

They were BAPTIZED by the LAYING OF hands by Paul , so do not stay a GORMLESS !!

dan p

 

[Lighthouse]

I can tell you really haven’t studied Holy Spirit baptism. In scriptures it only happened twice and each time it was for a special purpose and we are told out right what it was.
1) The apostles
Acts 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
2) Cornelius
Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.
In chapter 11 Peter is describing what happened and if you will notice he says the HS fell on them just as it did the apostles “at the beginning”
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
So we have two special situations where the bible tells us people were baptized by the Holy Spirit and each time it was directly from God and evident by speaking in tongues.

Yes there is one baptism and it's water. You’re using 1 Cor. 12:13 and trying to make baptism Holy Spirit baptism. We don’t even have to leave I Cor. to see that doesn’t work. In chapter 1 when Paul says 1:16, now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; it’s clear this is water baptism performed by Paul. I can’t imagine someone claiming Paul performs Holy Spirit baptism.
Still in 1 Cor. if we look at chapter 10 we see Paul describing the baptism of Moses.
10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Twice he says “under the cloud and in the sea”. He is clearly talking about water baptisms.
Then in chapter 12 when Paul says baptism it’s not water but Holy Spirit? What Paul means is that when we are water baptized “in the name of Jesus” the Holy Spirit adds us to the body. For example, in Acts 2: 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
They were baptized then the Spirit added them.

If you would consider 2 Kings 5 where Naaman was cleansed of his leprosy. When he dipped 7 times as told, did the water cleanse his leprosy or God?

Lastly, if you believe we are baptized by the Holy Spirit upon belief, could you please explain why Paul would ask, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
If the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the body upon belief, why would Paul ask "Into what then were you baptized?"

At what point did I say it was Holy Spirit baptism? You used a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. That's generally what happens when you assume.

And did Paul not receive the Spirit when he got his sight back? And this time without tongues.:think:

Does it not make you wonder that Cornelius and family received the Spirit before water baptism?

And doesn't it make more sense that Paul would ask if they received the Spirit when they believed if that's what he expected to happen?

The passage wherein he asks, "Into what then were you baptized," illustrates that they were not followers of Christ in the same manner as Paul. Not to mention the passage goes on to show that your position that Holy Spirit baptism only happened twice is false.

 

[Danoh]

Turbo, you should change your handle to John the Baptist - that is...all...that...all...your posts...are ever...about :chuckle:

 

[SimpleMan77]

After God personally revealed the fullness of the Gospel to Paul (Galatians chapter 1), he went to Jerusalem to meet with the Apostles, and compared the Gospel that God had given to him with what the one the Apostles were preaching.

Recalling that experience, Paul said that his race up to that point would have been in vain if it differed from theirs. Obviously God had revealed Apostolic authority to him. As true revelation from God always does, it matched perfectly. Paul said that the only thing they added to him was a reminder to remember the poor, which evidently he had forgotten to mention in his theological discourse (but that he was already of a mind to do it).

By Paul's own testimony the Gospel God gave to him was identical to the one Jesus left with His disciples.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[patrick jane]

After God personally revealed the fullness of the Gospel to Paul (Galatians chapter 1), he went to Jerusalem to meet with the Apostles, and compared the Gospel that God had given to him with what the one the Apostles were preaching.

Recalling that experience, Paul said that his race up to that point would have been in vain if it differed from theirs. Obviously God had revealed Apostolic authority to him. As true revelation from God always does, it matched perfectly. Paul said that the only thing they added to him was a reminder to remember the poor, which evidently he had forgotten to mention in his theological discourse (but that he was already of a mind to do it).

By Paul's own testimony the Gospel God gave to him was identical to the one Jesus left with His disciples.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Good post.

 

[Danoh]

Good post.

How non MAD of you :chuckle:

 

[Tambora]

Good post.

How non MAD of you :chuckle:

I was kinda taken back by his response too.

But then I thought, maybe PJ's looking at it from the perspective that both preached that Jesus was the Son of God.

Acts 9:20 KJV
(20) And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.


And, of course, most that know their bibles well know that on the road to Damascus was not the only time Christ revealed Himself to Paul.
Maybe SimpleMan was unaware of that? :idunno:

 

[SimpleMan77]

I was kinda taken back by his response too.

But then I thought, maybe PJ's looking at it from the perspective that both preached that Jesus was the Son of God.

Acts 9:20 KJV
(20) And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.


And, of course, most that know their bibles well know that on the road to Damascus was not the only time Christ revealed Himself to Paul.
Maybe SimpleMan was unaware of that? :idunno:

Actually Paul wasn't referring to the Damascus road experience at all when he referenced the Gospel he received by direct revelation. The only thing Jesus revealed in that Damascus road experience was who He was, and where he should go to hear what his next steps should be. Jesus has committed salvific preaching to men, and does not speak that from heaven.

Paul was referring to a direct revelation that happened post-conversion, where the details of the Gospel that he was to preach were given to him directly, from God.

That "Gospel" was comprehensive, as evidenced by the fact the Apostles noted that he had inadvertently omitted the subject of the care of the poor.

Paul said, in so many words, that in their meeting, his Gospel had proven to be identical to theirs. He approached that meeting humbly and quietly, understanding that the 12 Apostles had the authority to tell him his race had been in vain and he'd have to start over.

I have no idea how God revealed Apostolic authority to him - maybe He showed him the New Jerusalem with the names of the 12 apostles engraved into its foundation (Rev 21:14). Maybe He simply told him that He had committed to binding in heaven what they had bound on earth.

Paul obviously understood what John stated in 1 John 4:6 "He that knoweth God heareth us. He that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth and the spirit of error".


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Danoh]

I was kinda taken back by his response too.

But then I thought, maybe PJ's looking at it from the perspective that both preached that Jesus was the Son of God.

Acts 9:20 KJV
(20) And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.


And, of course, most that know their bibles well know that on the road to Damascus was not the only time Christ revealed Himself to Paul.
Maybe SimpleMan was unaware of that? :idunno:

So why is it okay to call him out on a thing; but not other MADs and that parroting brown nose fraud?

At least I am consistent - no favorites :chuckle:

By the way, that icon stands for a chuckle.

Like this :chuckle:

 

[Danoh]

Actually Paul wasn't referring to the Damascus road experience at all when he referenced the Gospel he received by direct revelation. The only thing Jesus revealed in that Damascus road experience was who He was, and where he should go to hear what his next steps should be. Jesus has committed salvific preaching to men, and does not speak that from heaven.

Paul was referring to a direct revelation that happened post-conversion, where the details of the Gospel that he was to preach were given to him directly, from God.

That "Gospel" was comprehensive, as evidenced by the fact the Apostles noted that he had inadvertently omitted the subject of the care of the poor.

Paul said, in so many words, that in their meeting, his Gospel had proven to be identical to theirs. He approached that meeting humbly and quietly, understanding that the 12 Apostles had the authority to tell him his race had been in vain and he'd have to start over.

I have no idea how God revealed Apostolic authority to him - maybe He showed him the New Jerusalem with the names of the 12 apostles engraved into its foundation (Rev 21:14). Maybe He simply told him that He had committed to binding in heaven what they had bound on earth.

Paul obviously understood what John stated in 1 John 4:6 "He that knoweth God heareth us. He that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth and the spirit of error".


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Try reading the Scripture

All you are doing is parroting what so called "Bible based" commentaries assert about what Paul is referring to in Galatians 2.

In Acts 15, when Paul first attempted to deal with the issues he is relating there in Galatians 2, he met with great opposition from some at Jerusalem.

So when he returned, he determined to meet with their leaders, so as not to have ended up wasting his time once more.

At which point HE straightened out their leaders - James, Cephas, and John, on what was what.

In contrast, they had had nothing to add to him.

I could say much more about this dynamic and all it was all about, but let's see what you do with that much.

 

[turbosixx]

The passage wherein he asks, "Into what then were you baptized," illustrates that they were not followers of Christ in the same manner as Paul. Not to mention the passage goes on to show that your position that Holy Spirit baptism only happened twice is false.

What are you basing the claim "they were not followers of Christ?" Have you read the context? Look at the end of chapter 18 and you will see what they were taught. They were taught Jesus with one exception, baptism. Why does baptism matter?

You said

Baptism is a way to express the change in life that results from a decision to follow Christ.

Did you learn that from God or man. If from God, do you have verses?