Hi cm:
Heard a sermon the other day about the fig three and the olive tree.
The pastor said the fig tree was physical Israel, and the olive tree was spiritual Israel.
He then said the fig tree was cut down, and then and now the gentiles are grafted into the olive tree with the believing Jews to form ONE spiritual kingdom.
If the fig tree was cut down as per Luke 13, then where does it say that it will be alive again?
Im not an expert on trees, but I think some trees can grow back after they are chopped down, and some die when chopped down.
Since MAD believes the kingdom will be restored after the trib, how does that relate to the Luke 13 parable?
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Miscellaneous comments:
The context of Romans 11 is not "soul salvation, but access to salvation, access to the LORD God nationally, or "corporately" through the Lord Jesus Christ. Branches were used as a metaphor for access. In "time past", has access to the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was exclusively via the instrumentality of Israel. However, Israel nationally refused her calling to go out into the world to make known to the Gentiles the Holy LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They refused to accept, or even recognize their own Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. The LORD God, at that time, could have brought in "the time of Jacob's trouble"(Jer. 30:7, Gen. 32:7), the tribulation judgments, but, in His grace, temporarily set aside the prophetic program, and brought about a way of salvation never before know to mankind. He stripped Israel(temporarily)of her exalted status as the "channel" of access, and gave the world reconciliation through the raising up of the Apostle Paul, as He grafted the whole world into this simple plan of reconciliation...and the mystery program was revealed........................
"For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?" Rom. 11:24
Perhaps: verse 24, what he is speaking of in verses 25-32, namely that Israel will someday be grafted back into that "cultivated olive tree." Someday, when the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in." He's speaking of the Gentiles, and saying that we , the body of Christ(at a corporate level) can be cut off just as Israel was, at which time Israel would once again be "grafted into their own olive tree."
Luke 13:6-9
The "vineyard"-The house of Israel
"For
the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.-The house of Israel:" Is. 5:7
"Thou hast
brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it." Psalms 80:8
"A certain man"-The Lord Jesus Christ
Fig trees, olive trees, vine,bramble: Jer. 24, 29:17; Hosea 9:10;Judges 9:8-13;
Olive:covenant, spiritual blessings/Psalms 45:7, Zech. 4:1-4(anointing oil made from Ex.30:24-25, a "type" of the Holy Spirit)
Fig: Religious life/Joel 1:6-9, Mt. 21:18-20, Luke 13:6-9(Adam and Eve-fig Gen 3:7="religious aprons")
Vine: National Israel
Bramble: Apostate Israel/Hosea 9:6, 10,18, Ez. 2:6, Mt. 13:7,22
Prophecy-certain events are scheduled to happen to each of these trees after the Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry:
-Bramble:Hosea 10:9 -Apostate Jewish religion will flourish, and overshadow the truth(2 Peter 2:1-3,5; 1 John 2:18,19; Jude 4-19). These false teachers will be hand sown by the enemy, Satan(Mt. 13:39)
-Fig: What will become of them after His death is the context of Luke 13:6-9. The Lord Jesus Christ looked for fruit-none.
-Olive: It was stripped of its branches, and, in place of stripped branches, Israel, wild olive branches, Gentiles, were grafted in(context is corporate)
-Vine Representing Israel as a nation, with branches being individuals.
What becomes of the vine after the Lord Jesus Christ's ministry is the topic of John 15:1-6.
Per Hosea 10:1, Israel had become a self righteous nation, and the religious leaders falsely believed that they were the seed of Abraham, in which all the world would be blessed, But they added to the Law, and trusted themselves, and their favored positions, to gain favor with the LORD God.
The Matthew 3:9-19 warning=an empty vine cannot bring forth fruit=Israel had become lifeless.
John 15:1 ff:" I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman."
The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking of the Tribulation period, after the "seizure by force"/"rapture", the Lord Jesus Christ will enter "dead" Israel again, and give life to 144000 branches(Rev. 7:6-9). Those branches who reject the Lord Jesus Christ, will be broken of and burned up during the Trib=the process is national Israel's "Baptism with Fire", referenced in Mt. 3:11-12-purging branches.
A vine branch has only one function/purpose:to bear fruit.
I think. I need to study this issue more-obviously.
Some say the fig tree represents national Israel, the olive tree her covenant blessings, and the vine her spiritual blessings.
May want to check this out from another poster:
"All Christians are grafted into the Jewish tree, hence all of the true Israel will be saved: This is an old traditional, but false, interpretation of the passage. The Body of Christ is grafted into the root. The previous holy tree of Israel is completely pulled out (temporarily), and the new tree is grafted in. It's a new tree entirely. That's what the language says. That's what the botanical structure of the olive tree also dictates. See the following papers on Romans 11 (These are PDF documents): "
http://www.tgfonline.org/TGF/romans/romans_11a.pdf
http://www.tgfonline.org/TGF/romans/romans_11b.pdf
And, consider, that many "Covenant" proponents view Israel as the root, and that Gentiles are grafted into Israel.
However, how can Israel be cut off from the root, if she is the root?
Is not the Lord Jesus Christ the root?
been waiting to say that awhile.