Ro 5:8 :blabla:
For everyone who is concerned about my eternal soul
- Thread starter GreatBigBore
- Start date
Ro 5:8 :blabla:
If you don't like the way God runs the universe, get your own universe (Ro 9:22). :juggle:
Sounds right to me (Ps 89:14). :idunno:
You don't want to get born again, don't get born again (Mt 12:31). :idunno: We're not selling used cars here. :dizzy:
That's not going to work out too well for him (Ps 50:21).
Nang
TOL Subscriber
So you deny God's Justice?
Universalism is an untenable position to take, you will find. It does not stand the scrutiny of the Holy Scriptures at all.
No, what you need to do is come up with a different model of God. What we are really concerned most directly with is various human models of God. Many picture God as a kind of Ruthless Moralist who hands down draconian punishments. But that is not the only possible model of God. God can also be thought of as loving. So we have a choice. The question is, Which model of God do you want to go with? To me, a punitive, juridical God is a bully and then no real God at all.
The problem with the notion of a wholly immutable God is that this model of God is not at all biblical, as around 100 passages in Scripture speak of God as changing. Also, it is not at all a responsive God. If God cannot change, if nothing can make any real difference in God, then saint or sinner, it's all the same to God, who remains blissfully indifferent.
Isn't that what you do every day? :Shimei: I am shocked--shocked that a God-hater is displeased with where he is going (Rom. 1:22, 23). :burnlib:
"We give out the word of God.
oly: What men do with it is their business." ~ J. Vernon McGeeThe Bible makes it very clear that God is a loving God and seeks to save everyone, not just the elect. As to justice, much depends on what you mean by this term. Punishing people really never solved any problems at all. So how is that justice? And no, I'm not talking about cheap grace, some easy way out. We all too easily forget how the experience of great beauty can be a real chastisement, really throw you down on your knees and burst your ego. When we all die, we are all free of the need to survive, free of teh struggle for survival. That means all barriers between ourselves and others are dropped, are useless. When that happens, then we become empathic, can better merge with each other and share in each other's feelings. in turn, that means we can come to share in the pain we have inflicted upon others. And that's no easy experience or way out. If you're a Hitler, then you will relive all the pain and suffering, every bit of it, that you inflicted on others. That alone is more than sufficient punishment, if you are concerned about universal salvation meaning cheap grace.
“If you take part of the truth, and try to make that part of the truth, all of the truth, then that part of the truth becomes an untruth.” ~ Adrian Rogers
What coercion? :dizzy: Take it or leave it (Is 55:6). There is no better deal at this particular point in time. You want to keep strutting in your flesh? :banana: Good luck with that (Ro 8:13).
That would make him sick. He's a healthy God.
lain: You are free to love him--or not. Love your sin more? So be it (Re 22:11). :juggle:
I'm supposed to care more about his soul than he does? :AMR: Jn 3:19
Your version of god is unjust.
You act as if God can just do anything at all and remain a just and righteous (same thing) God. He can't.
God created mankind perfect and we rebelled. That rebellion was against the God of Life. God is Life. When we rebelled we rebelled against Life. What other consequence can their be other than death?
God is not the God of death! But if He embraced those who rejected Life, that's exactly what He'd become. He would become His opposite. Love would become Hate, Righteousness would become Evil, Justice would become Corruption, Heaven would become Hell.
Besides, if the Bible doesn't teach that people are sent to Hell, it doesn't teach anything. Are you going to stand there on judgement day and educate God about what is and isn't loving? Is that going to be your defense? Who are you to judge God?
God is just even if (or especially if) He succeeds in bringing an end to wickedness by bringing the wicked to repentance. I don't know if all will repent or some will perish because they continue to refuse. Either way God is just. It doesn't follow logically that God is unjust if all are saved.