Females As Leaders/Pastors Of Males In Evangelical Churches.

[JudgeRightly]

You can condemn homosexuals all you want, but in this country you can't violate their civil rights.

Begging the question.

Homosexuals do not have the right to be homosexual.

Or execute them.

No, that's the government's job.

So you have the freedom to be prejudiced,

I have an obligation to judge with righteous judgement.

but not discriminatory.

Prejudism IS discrimination,

You can dream of executions, but you can't legally carry them out.

Me personally, no, but the Government does.

I don't read every post.

Fair.

And you'd like to make that happen?

I promote and advocate for the government to reinstate the death penalty for convicted homosexuals.

Or are you gonna wait for God?

Not a case of "either/or."

I don't approve or disapprove. Are you into thought crimes now?

Apathy is a sin, Anna, because it's a form of hatred. If you love your neighbor, you warn them that what they are doing is harmful, especially if it's a crime.

The city of man isn't the city of God.

So?

Dominionists don't want to wait for God, they want to take their human initiative to make cities into their ideal of what a city should be.

I'm a theonomist. A dominionist of sorts, I supposed, based on your definition, but I don't believe that civilians have a right to overthrow the government just because it doesn't hold to their ideals.

I have a feeling some Christians are gonna be super-shocked when they get to heaven.

I completely agree!

As a whole, any law without God's input is unjust.

AMEN!

OT or NT?

I said "the Bible," did I not? That includes both.

OT calls for reparation.

So does the NT.

NT calls for forgiveness.

Are you sure? Can you tell me where it does so?

Nope.

I recommend looking it up before we continue.

OK.

OK.

Are we still stoning witches?

Does witchcraft fall under any of the laws which societies in general are founded upon, "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not covet"? Or was stoning witches a command given specifically to Israel, and no other nation?

That OT law

Are you perhaps referring to the Mosaic law? Because that continued into the New Testament.

has passed away, being supplanted by NT "law"s of love and forgiveness.

Jesus said:

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. - Matthew 5:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew5:18&version=NKJV

Why do you disagree with Him?

The crime is the same, but men's reactions to them have changed...

So therefore the punishments have changed? Or maybe when God said that the punishment for murder should be execution, the punishment He gave was the only just punishment for that crime, and anything other than the death penalty for murderers is unjust

thanks to Jesus Christ and the principals He introduced.

Do you think Jesus gave principles in the New Testament that were different than the ones He gave to Moses?

You would prefer we take vengeance

No.

I would prefer the government to take vengeance, as Paul said:

Regarding how believers should act:
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:17-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans12:17-21&version=NKJV

And describing the government's role in society, and our relationship to it:
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing.Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. - Romans 13:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans13:1-7&version=NKJV

instead of forgive, as Christ taught?

Christ didn't teach us to just "forgive."

Where do we read of any NT church

Why do you assume I'm talking about the church, when I have specifically mentioned how the government should act?

putting someone to death, or exacting any other kind of punishment?

Haven't you read Paul? Or what Jesus said? Or what Revelation said? Or what Hebrews said?

 

[JudgeRightly]

As are many things …

No church should have to change their leadership because a few members dislike their gender or race …

No one should be putting women in the pulpit to begin with.

As you said, no church should have to change their leadership because a few members dislike their gender or race.

 

[annabenedetti]

Begging the question.

Homosexuals do not have the right to be homosexual.

No, just stating the reality of the law.

I have an obligation to judge with righteous judgement.

You have the freedom to be as judgmental as you want. You don't have the right to act on your judmentalism outside the law.

Prejudism IS discrimination,

No it's not.

Prejudice is what you believe, in your mind, about someone based on their memberships in a group (racial, social, etc.)
Discrimination is taking negative action against that person, based on your prejudice.
The law doesn't prohibit prejudice, it prohibits discrimination.

I promote and advocate for the government to reinstate the death penalty for convicted homosexuals.

I'm a theonomist. A dominionist of sorts, I supposed, based on your definition, but I don't believe that civilians have a right to overthrow the government just because it doesn't hold to their ideals.

You have the freedom to have reprehensible ideas. You don't have the freedom to act on them, so I'm glad you at least acknowledge that much.

 

[Rusha]

No one should be putting women in the pulpit to begin with.

Leadership should be chosen by qualifications rather than gender. At least half the population of men are unworthy to lead.

 

[Right Divider]

Leadership should be chosen by qualifications rather than gender. At least half the population of men are unworthy to lead.

And 100% of women according to Paul.

 

[JudgeRightly]

And 100% of women according to Paul.

Except when it's among only women...

 

[Hoping]

Really? Do you know how many National Guard Deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan? You wouldn’t let them rescue you? How would you know? Would you shout questions up to the helicopter crew first?

Didn't you read my reply?
How is getting a lift from them in any way supporting them?

 

[annabenedetti]

Didn't you read my reply?
How is getting a lift from them in any way supporting them?

So you don't support them when they're called up to put their lives on the line out of duty to country but you definitely don't mind if they put their lives on the line to rescue you? That's a pretty one-way system you've got going there, all the benefit to you and none of the sacrifice.

 

[Hoping]

So you don't support them when they're called up to put their lives on the line out of duty to country but you definitely don't mind if they put their lives on the line to rescue you? That's a pretty one-way system you've got going there, all the benefit to you and none of the sacrifice.

Your "hypothetical" works for you, but it is void of any understanding of God's answer to prayer.
I trust Him to keep me out of "flood" situations.
And I pray with thanksgiving for His continuing protections everyday.
Trust God, not guns.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Since it seems you can't use your God-given brain to figure out the relevant portion, here is the same passage again, with highlights to make it easier to understand:

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. - Romans 1:26-32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1:26-32&version=NKJV

Guess what, Arty, that includes you too, because you approve of those who do the above.



Says the one denying it.



False.

Oh, there was plenty relevant to modern day legalists as you should well be aware. Far right fundamentalism is not Christianity. It's a thankfully, tiny sect that albeit vocal is ineffectual and mired in pomp and self righteous judgement. So, your comments about the same applying to me can be dismissed as I neither engage in or approve/disapprove of homosexual relations. I kinda mind my own business on the score and don't reduce people to any particular facet.

Reality is what it is JR. Continually saying 'false' is meaningless in the face of facts.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Begging the question.

Homosexuals do not have the right to be homosexual.



No, that's the government's job.



I have an obligation to judge with righteous judgement.



Prejudism IS discrimination,



Me personally, no, but the Government does.



Fair.



I promote and advocate for the government to reinstate the death penalty for convicted homosexuals.



Not a case of "either/or."

Homosexuals hardly have any say in it.

Oh, and there's a difference between prejudice and discrimination also.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Oh, there was plenty relevant to modern day legalists as you should well be aware.

Yawn.

Far right fundamentalism is not Christianity.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

It's a thankfully, tiny sect that albeit vocal is ineffectual and mired in pomp and self righteous judgement.

Appeal to popularity.

Try an actual argument.

So, your comments about the same applying to me can be dismissed as I neither engage in or approve/disapprove of homosexual relations.

As I said to Anna, apathy is a form of hatred, and it's a sin.

If you hate your neighbor, you let them continue to harm themselves. If you love your neighbor, you warn them that what they're doing is harmful to them.

I kinda mind my own business on the score

Again, apathy is a sin.

and don't reduce people to any particular facet.

Liar. The very first two sentences in your post that I'm quoting here are you doing exactly that.

Talk about speaking out of both sides of one's mouth!

Reality is what it is JR.

I agree. And?

Continually saying 'false' is meaningless in the face of facts.

False.

Homosexuals hardly have any say in it.

Yes, they do.

Oh, and there's a difference between prejudice and discrimination also.

Yawn.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yawn.



Saying it doesn't make it so.



Appeal to popularity.

Try an actual argument.



As I said to Anna, apathy is a form of hatred, and it's a sin.

If you hate your neighbor, you let them continue to harm themselves. If you love your neighbor, you warn them that what they're doing is harmful to them.



Again, apathy is a sin.



Liar. The very first two sentences in your post that I'm quoting here are you doing exactly that.

Talk about speaking out of both sides of one's mouth!



I agree. And?



False.



Yes, they do.



Yawn.

Yawn away although it's scripture you're yawning at.

Far right fundamentalism is not Christianity. That's not a soundbite, it simply isn't. It's also not an appeal to popularity either, it's simply stating fact.

It's not apathy to oppose that which you advocate so that's bemusing. I'm against religious legalism in general so it's somewhat baffling how you can confuse that with apathy.

Have I reduced you to nothing other than one facet? How so?

You don't agree else you'd recognize fact.

Oh, you made a conscious choice to be attracted to the opposite sex?

Yawn away again as much as you like, there's a difference and you should have been more than well aware of the fact.

 

[Hoping]

Homosexuals hardly have any say in it.

Oh, and there's a difference between prejudice and discrimination also.

Do rapists and thieves "have any say in it"?

 

[ok doser]

Do rapists and thieves "have any say in it"?

Or pedophiles or adulterers?

 

[Rusha]

So should every God fearing woman.

Your *opinion* has been noted.

 

[Rusha]

Do rapists and thieves "have any say in it"?

No, they do NOT have the consent of their VICTIMS.

But feel free to make more ridiculous comparisons.

 

[ok doser]

No, they do NOT have the consent of their VICTIMS.

But feel free to make more ridiculous comparisons.

Many pedophiles claim to have the consent of their victims.

Virtually all adulterers have the consent of their victims.

 

[Rusha]

No one should be putting women in the pulpit to begin with.

It’s up to the church members to make that decision.

I have left churches based on their teachings as well as the quality of the leadership and congregation.

Outside of needing to create chaos, why attend a church that does not coincide with your personal, spiritual beliefs?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Do rapists and thieves "have any say in it"?

Well of course they do. Violating another person and thieving are actions so it's entirely a choice when people do so. Any more stupid questions?