Favorite Theologian?

[Gary K]

And yet we are MEMBERS of His body.

Eph. 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:​

Sorry, but I don't understand your point. Yes, there are people God has put in place for teaching and so on, but He has also said that to trust Him is to please Him, that without faith it is impossible to please Him. So, when I take Him at His word, that He will guide me into all truth through the presence of the Comforter, and do so in the same manner that Paul recommended as being more noble than just listening to him, how is that an insult or denigration of anyone else? You and I, and all other humans can always get things wrong. God never will. That's why my trust is in Him rather than in humanity.

My statement of never is not a statement that I never have read a theologian so in some way it is an overstatement of what I meant.. It's been my experience with them that they can take the simplest and clearest revelations from God and make them almost unrecognizable through over analysis and through human reasoning. When we read the Gospels we see that Jewish theologians did this a lot. They had almost completely corrupted the faith of the Jews by the time of Christ.

I'm not saying I never read anything outside of the Bible, but everything I read I take to the Bible and my heavenly Father for verification. I have yet to meet a human being who is a faithful and loving as He is. Therefore, I see no good reason for placing my trust in someone other than God. It is this experience that has led to me to no longer reading theologians. My entire purpose in studying the Bible is to know God, therefore His word is the best possible place for me to do that. Reading about His word, is not the same as reading His word that are filled with the power of life to the soul.

I look at this much like David did. He said, Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. What David didn't say is just as important, in my estimation. He didn't say, what other people say about God's word is a lamp to his feet and a light to his path. He trusted God to be the light by which he lived his life. And since God said David was a man after His own heart, well, I will rest in that.

 

[glorydaz]

So, when I take Him at His word, that He will guide me into all truth through the presence of the Comforter, and do so in the same manner that Paul recommended as being more noble than just listening to him, how is that an insult or denigration of anyone else?

Did I say it was an insult or denigration of anyone else?

Nope, I didn't.

 

[jaybird]

i like listening to Ted Nottingham.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So your judgement of yourself is to confess your sins individually after each are committed and ask forgiveness of each of those individual sins?
Anything else you need to do, or is that it?

When you are confessing your sins obviously you are judging yourself. And according to John you don't have to ask forgiveness for those sins but instesd just confess them.

Do you think that when a Christian sins he defiles himself?

 

[glorydaz]

When you are confessing your sins obviously you are judging yourself. And according to John you don't have to ask forgiveness for those sins but instesd just confess them.

Do you think that when a Christian sins he defiles himself?

Who charges a Christian with sin?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So, with the promise of Jesus to provide supernatural help in understanding the scriptures why would I go to a human source to learn?

Why are Pastors and Teachers given to those in the Body of Christ? See Ephesians 4:13-14 for the answer.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Who charges a Christian with sin?

Did not Paul charge Peter with sinning--"because he was to be blamed...they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel" (Gal.1:11,14)?

 

[Gary K]

Did I say it was an insult or denigration of anyone else?

Nope, I didn't.

It was your usage of the word "yet" that led me to that conclusion.

And yet we are MEMBERS of His body.

To me it is one of those things to which I say, so? How is it relevant? I haven't said theologians cannot be members of the body of the Christ.

I see theologians today who reject the divinity of Jesus. Look at the Westar organization and the Jesus Seminar, as well as quite few socialist activists who take the names of Christian and theologian. Look at the theologians who took their cue from the rationalism of the French Revolution. They dismissed the idea of inspiration completely. The Germans had theologians who were greatly influenced by that movement and who denied God exists. This tells me that theologians are far from being infallible. I see John Calvin, a theologian, and i disagree with much of what he said. I see a lot of Catholic theologians who come to non-Biblical conclusions too. Our only completely reliable sources for truth are the scriptures and God. All else is susceptible to the corruption that comes with being human. I guess you could say the last two sentences sum up my entire position. I don't really see as to how it is debatable scripturally either. I just am far more comfortable with God's word than that which comments on God's word. One is infallible. The other is not.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A better approach would be to study out what the Apostle of the Gentiles has to say on these issues.

So you do not think that the doctrine found in John's epistles is doctrine intended for those in the Body of Christ?

Would you mind telling me why?

 

[Gary K]

Why are Pastors and Teachers given to those in the Body of Christ? See Ephesians 4:13-14 for the answer.

Is it your contention that all theologians are led by God and teach His truths, and only His truths? How about Acts 20:29? How about Galatians 1: 6-8? These are both instances of "teachers", or if you will, theologians, who came in and corrupted the Gospel. Poeple who, posing as teachers of the flock, led people away from faith in God. I contend that if the Galatians had been people like the Bereans they would not have been led astray. They would have trusted God's promises and "searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were so". Instead they placed their trust in those who claimed to be trustworthy and teaching truth.

 

[glorydaz]

Did not Paul charge Peter with sinning--"because he was to be blamed...they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel" (Gal.1:11,14)?

I don't know if he was charging Peter with sin. I don't see that.

He certainly accused him of not following the truth of the Gospel with his hypocrisy.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Assemblies that per a careful comparison of all that, with Acts 9 and Galatians 1, show Paul had preached grace to them in Acts 9.

The verses which you quoted say nothing about Paul preaching the gospel of grace to anyone at Acts 9.

 

[glorydaz]

It was your usage of the word "yet" that led me to that conclusion.



To me it is one of those things to which I say, so? How is it relevant? I haven't said theologians cannot be members of the body of the Christ.

I see theologians today who reject the divinity of Jesus. Look at the Westar organization and the Jesus Seminar, as well as quite few socialist activists who take the names of Christian and theologian. Look at the theologians who took their cue from the rationalism of the French Revolution. They dismissed the idea of inspiration completely. The Germans had theologians who were greatly influenced by that movement and who denied God exists. This tells me that theologians are far from being infallible. I see John Calvin, a theologian, and i disagree with much of what he said. I see a lot of Catholic theologians who come to non-Biblical conclusions too. Our only completely reliable sources for truth are the scriptures and God. All else is susceptible to the corruption that comes with being human. I guess you could say the last two sentences sum up my entire position. I don't really see as to how it is debatable scripturally either. I just am far more comfortable with God's word than that which comments on God's word. One is infallible. The other is not.

Alright. If you're going to be so defensive over something you read INTO something I said, then you're in need of some maturing in the Lord.

 

[Gary K]

Alright. If you're going to be so defensive over something you read INTO something I said, then you're in need of some maturing in the Lord.

How is it defensiveness to say how and why I came to my conclusion? I don't get it. All I did was explain my thinking. Is that somehow bad behavior? If so, anyone who is courteous enough to explain why they take the positions they take is indulging in bad behavior. Like I said, I don't get it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't know if he was charging Peter with sin. I don't see that.

He certainly accused him of not following the truth of the Gospel with his hypocrisy.

If a person does not walk upright according to the truth of the gospel then that person is sinning.

"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin" (Ro.14:23).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Is it your contention that all theologians are led by God and teach His truths, and only His truths?

I never said that. Do you deny that the LORD gives those in the Body of Christ teachers?

 

[Gary K]

I never said that. Do you deny that the LORD gives those in the Body of Christ teachers?

According to you we do not need teachers.

I never accused you of saying anything. I asked if that if that was your contention, and said if it was, here is my response to that.

As to your question, no, I do not deny that God puts people in place to help edify the body. I'm not claiming I don't need a teacher. I'm saying that i trust God to teach me. That's a huge difference. How I could ever have a more qualified teacher than the Holy Spirit I don't know. I also trust God to take care of me every moment of every day. I trust Him to keep me true to Him. I don't trust myself in spiritual matters. Why should I when the Bible tells me the heart is decietfully wicked and who can know it? I don't trust humanity at large. Humanity became corrupted a long time ago. My trust is placed in God alone. Is that not what Christianity is all about? That's what I see in the Bible.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I'm not claiming I don't need a teacher.

Are you not claiming that you do not need a teacher who is given by the LORD to those in the Body?

 

[glorydaz]

And yet we are MEMBERS of His body.

Eph. 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:​

Did I say it was an insult or denigration of anyone else?

Nope, I didn't.

It was your usage of the word "yet" that led me to that conclusion.

Alright. If you're going to be so defensive over something you read INTO something I said, then you're in need of some maturing in the Lord.

How is it defensiveness to say how and why I came to my conclusion? I don't get it. All I did was explain my thinking.

It is NOT defensive to "explain your thinking".

Is that somehow bad behavior? If so, anyone who is courteous enough to explain why they take the positions they take is indulging in bad behavior. Like I said, I don't get it.

It's defensive to claim I said anything about "bad behaviour" when you were explaining your thinking. It was defensive to grab ahold of my word YET, and get all bent out of shape over it.

My YET was merely a reminder that members of the body of Christ consist of more than just YOU AND YOUR BIBLE. We learn from one another, as different members of the body expound on the Scriptures. I am not saying we have to swallow everything every Tom Dick and Harry preaches.

Now, are you going to keep showing us how defensive you are about everything you post? Or can you simply post and respond like normal folks do?

 

[SUTG]

Some of my favorites (although I don't think they all count as theologians):

- Bernard Lonergan
- Cardinal Newman
- Augustine
- Corenelius Van Til
- Aquinas