Far Better To Build Immune System than Count on Vaccines

[Clete]

There is no denying the fact that there are millions of unvaccinated people who have not gotten covid.

So what?

This is not relevant, Marke. A point I've made already more than once and that you just ignore completely or else use as an excuse to repeat some other irrelevancy.

It is also undeniable that there are thousands who have gotten the shot who have gotten covid, and some of them have died.

Not unexpected and therefore not relevant!

There seems to be no explanation for why you refuse to incorporate those facts into your stubborn narratives.

I've explained it over and over and over again!

IT IS NOT RELEVANT!!!!

Thousands die every day in car accidents. I still drive a car. People fall off ladders every single day and get seriously injured, do you want to ban ladders? Do you own a ladder?

You do not know how to properly assess risk, Marke!

 

[Clete]

I believe Americans should be free to take personal risks if they choose. If I refuse to get the shot then that supposedly hurts nobody who claims they will be protected from covid if they get the shot for themselves. Let people get the shot or not. That is the American way.

You assess risks for yourself. Stop worrying about how I assess risks for myself.

You are the one showing up on a public debate forum trying to convince everyone that these vaccines are too dangerous. I didn't force you to show up with your fear mongering nonsense but you're here and I will refute you to what ever extent I want and there's nothing you can do about except either shut up or allow reason to seep between your ears enough to change your mind.

 

[Clete]

Vaccine passports are not required by free nations - just enslaved nations.

There are no national vaccine passports and we live in a republic not a dictatorship. Those who live in New York and California who hate the government are free to leave. That doesn't make what they are doing with these passports right, but it does refute your vapid point.

 

[Clete]

You mock some reports and promote others. I do not agree that your sources provide better evidence and reasons than do some of the reports you mock. I read reports and draw my own conclusions, just like you do. I'm sorry if we do not agree.

No, you're not sorry and don't pretend like what you do is anything remotely similar to what I do. I've cited studies while you cite media reports and opinion and twisted statistics designed specifically to scare the mindless like yourself.

 

[Clete]

De Blasio is issuing unconstitutional edicts whether you realize it or not.

There are legal remedies for unconstitutional edicts. Whether those remedies will be acted upon is a different question.

 

[Clete]

This isn't a NY mandate on businesses?: NEW YORK—Mayor Bill de Blasio today announced the Key to NYC vaccination mandate for indoor dining, entertainment and fitness will start tomorrow, August 17. Enforcement will begin, with a multi-agency coalition, on September 13. Read the Executive Order here.

And beyond that, the short term results are fine for the vaccine. But you have to admit that I'm being reasonable and following the science if I want to wait for the long term results and since I'm in a demographic where COVID is less deadly than the regular flu.

And then there is giving tyrants like de Blasio positive feedback. I'm saving lives by not doing what he says even if there was a pandemic.

Now, before you go off emotionally about there not being a pandemic, let me clarify. If COVID was a pandemic then we have a pandemic every flu season. I think the word pandemic should mean something so that word should be used for something much worse than even a bad flu season. And thus, the fact remains, had we used the treatments available and protected the vulnerable, there would have been zero excess deaths in 2020 (or only as bad as a bad flu season). Since the worst of the "pandemic" and its variants are passed, the best way out of this is not the vaccines but to treat this disease like we treat the yearly flu. That's nothing against the vaccines, but treating the vaccines as a support like we normally do.

I wouldn't have ever tried to suggest that there wasn't a pandemic. My arguments are not about semantics.

And I have no problem with anyone who doesn't want to take the vaccine so long as they're doing so for rational reasons that aren't related to fear mongering nonsense and conspiracy theories.

Clete

 

[marke]

Judge rightly is no some guys name.

What are you trying to tell me, that its wrong to judge? Hypocrite!

LIAR!!!

I have totally refuted every single syllable of your ridiculous fear mongering lies and you know it! All you've done is repeatedly ignored those argument and repeated yourself as though nothing had been said.


It's a lie, Marke! You KNOW its a lie! Everyone who reads just the headline knows its a lie unless they're like you, either stupid or delusional. You can tell its false even if you know practically nothing at all about it. Even by whatever metric they're using, it's nothing but a trick of statistics. Just because you're less likely to be reinfected with natural immunity vs. vaccinated immunity does NOT mean that you're like to be reinfected with vaccinated immunity.

Look, if you have 10,000,000,000 nails and 10,000 of them are bent and I have 1000 nails and only 7 of them are bent, who has the most bent nails?

If you pulled a nail at random from each of our piles, then you'd be seven times less like to get a bent one out of your pile but that doesn't mean you're even close to wasting your time trying to get a good nail out of my pile.


Clete

As long as there is a risk of getting sick or dying from the covid shot I will refuse to take it and that is my right as an American citizen. You can minimalize the risk all you like but you know the risk is there, whether accurately reported by everyone or not.

 

[marke]

There are legal remedies for unconstitutional edicts. Whether those remedies will be acted upon is a different question.

We can simply ignore laws we do not like just as leading democrats do, whether the law pertains to illegal immigration, purging bloated voter rolls, defunding Planned Parenthood, constitutional freedoms of speech, religion, and gun rights, to name a few.

 

[marke]

So what?

This is not relevant, Marke. A point I've made already more than once and that you just ignore completely or else use as an excuse to repeat some other irrelevancy.


Not unexpected and therefore not relevant!


I've explained it over and over and over again!

IT IS NOT RELEVANT!!!!

Thousands die every day in car accidents. I still drive a car. People fall off ladders every single day and get seriously injured, do you want to ban ladders? Do you own a ladder?

You do not know how to properly assess risk, Marke!

How many Americans have still not gotten covid and are still unvaccinated? I insist it is not the vaccines that are keeping those people from getting covid.

 

[marke]

You are the one showing up on a public debate forum trying to convince everyone that these vaccines are too dangerous. I didn't force you to show up with your fear mongering nonsense but you're here and I will refute you to what ever extent I want and there's nothing you can do about except either shut up or allow reason to seep between your ears enough to change your mind.

You favor the shot. I don't. 'Whut da problum is?'

 

[marke]

There are no national vaccine passports and we live in a republic not a dictatorship. Those who live in New York and California who hate the government are free to leave. That doesn't make what they are doing with these passports right, but it does refute your vapid point.

Americans are not supposed to pack up and leave when Marxists take illegitimate control of the government and start issuing ungodly stupid irresponsible edicts. Americans are supposed to stand and fight against such nonsense.

 

[marke]

No, you're not sorry and don't pretend like what you do is anything remotely similar to what I do. I've cited studies while you cite media reports and opinion and twisted statistics designed specifically to scare the mindless like yourself.

I read reports from both sides. I have found Fauci's side to be dishonest, stupid, and unconstitutional.

 

[marke]

There are legal remedies for unconstitutional edicts. Whether those remedies will be acted upon is a different question.

I simply ignore the stupid wicked Marxist edicts.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Judge rightly is no some guys name.

Um... Hello there!

 

[Lon]

Look, if you have 10,000,000,000 nails and 10,000 of them are bent and I have 1000 nails and only 7 of them are bent, who has the most bent nails?

If you pulled a nail at random from each of our piles, then you'd be seven times less like to get a bent one out of your pile but that doesn't mean you're even close to wasting your time trying to get a good nail out of my pile.


Clete

Have seen many attempts to explain this, but your analogy here is better than any I've seen. It should help clear up the statistics. You are exactly right.

 

[Yorzhik]

I wouldn't have ever tried to suggest that there wasn't a pandemic. My arguments are not about semantics.

And I have no problem with anyone who doesn't want to take the vaccine so long as they're doing so for rational reasons that aren't related to fear mongering nonsense and conspiracy theories.

Clete

I'm saying if we call something as bad as a bad flu a pandemic, then pandemic has lost its meaning. I'd rather keep the meaning of pandemic so that we know when a disease is bad enough we should alter our lives for.

Turns out, based on excess deaths, we didn't have a pandemic in the US. Since that is true, it would be rational to refuse the vaccine just based on how crazy politicians are about pushing it.

 

[ok doser]

... it would be rational to refuse the vaccine just based on how crazy politicians are about pushing it.

Social media has given a disproportionate voice to the stupid people in our country and indeed the world. Politicians recognize the benefits of pandering to them.

 

[Clete]

As long as there is a risk of getting sick or dying from the covid shot I will refuse to take it and that is my right as an American citizen. You can minimalize the risk all you like but you know the risk is there, whether accurately reported by everyone or not.

It isn't minimizing it to cast it in the light of reality. There is NO significant risk - period. That has not only been told to you but shown to you with real life numbers that YOU are the one ignoring so don't get all sanctimonious with me. You are the one who shows up here lying through your teeth trying to scare everyone off of getting a vaccine that is at least as safe as any vaccine that has been administered you're whole life and which you had exactly zero problem with. You can minimize your COVID fear psychosis all you like but the whole thread is still right here for the whole world to read.

 

[Clete]

We can simply ignore laws we do not like just as leading democrats do, whether the law pertains to illegal immigration, purging bloated voter rolls, defunding Planned Parenthood, constitutional freedoms of speech, religion, and gun rights, to name a few.

You are a veritable fountain of irrelevant nonsense. It's as if you just don't know how to think these things through. I just heard something on the radio today about a judge striking down some mandate that California had in place (they didn't give the details but that's beside the point). The point being that government officials overstep their bounds all the time and then someone takes them to court and it typically gets squared away. Not always but that's the way things work here in America. If you don't like it then we can have a debate over better forms of government if you want but that won't change the facts of reality which is that we live in America where the laws are what they are. None of which has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with whether or not these vaccines are safe and effective.

 

[Clete]

How many Americans have still not gotten covid and are still unvaccinated? I insist it is not the vaccines that are keeping those people from getting covid.

You insist in spite of literally millions upon millions of test cases that flat out PROVE you wrong!