Then stop saying that the Bible prohibits drinking.
Faithful Christians abstain from drinking alcohol
- Thread starter marke
- Start date
Then stop saying that the Bible prohibits drinking.
I did not say non-fermented wine was inferior to wine made with leaven. That is something said by those wanting to justify drinking wine that moves itself aright in the cup.
Proverbs 23:31
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
You don't seem to get it.
The point behind bringing out the good wine at the beginning of a feast, rather than at the end, and then moving to the inferior, was so that your feast-goers would get drunk on the good stuff, so that they wouldn't notice that they were drinking the inferior wine later into the party.
It saves the good wine for when it's needed, and helps use up inferior wine that people likely wouldn't drink otherwise.
Jesus made the good wine LATE into the party! If anything, the wine He made was BETTER than the wine they started out with! Meaning it would have been wine people could easily get drunk on!
As you can't drink with faith, you had better not drink.
Here is a quote from the above:
Jesus Served Fermented Wine at the Last Supper: Some say that the "fruit of the vine" that Jesus served at the Last Supper was unfermented grape juice. However, it wasn't until 1869 that Thomas Welch (of the grape juice fame) discovered how to prevent grape juice fermenting into wine (using Louis Pasteur's pasteurization process). Passover is in the spring, and the grape harvest is in the summer, and so when Jesus served wine at the Lord's Supper, there is no question that it was wine and not grape juice. As the pastor of DBC, I had the honor of leading a Bible Tour of Greece (call us to get the MP3 CD with photos) and our wonderful local Christian guide, Costas Tsevas, told of his previous group who asked him to get them grape juice for communion and he said he would get them a bottle of wine. They refused this and asked for grape juice and he explained to them that there was no such thing, because as soon as grapes are crushed, the juice begins to ferment into wine. They insisted on going to various grocery stores even though Costas assured them that there was no such thing as grape juice in the Mediterranean where he grew up and lived, only wine. He had quite a laugh when his blessed group celebrated communion with bread and orange juice.
My question: Was the wine Jesus made non-fermented or did it move itself aright and did Jesus look on it in violation to Prov. 23:31?
Proverbs 23:31
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
musterion
Well-known member
Pleasing God depends on what is done about drinking fermented beverages, but salvation does not depend on that.
The answer is this:
"he explained to them that there was no such thing, because as soon as grapes are crushed, the juice begins to ferment into wine."
Did Jesus violate His own word in Proverbs 23:31?
No, because there's no prohibition against drinking wine in Proverbs 23:31.
That's not the point. I am saying God says not to look at the wine when it is red and moves aright in the cup. Christians just need to find out if He is talking to them and if so what He means by that instruction.
No, he's not saying that at all.
Ripping the verse out of its context has led you to believe that drinking alcohol should be forbidden.
But it's not talking about forbidding alcohol.
It's not even directed at Christians!
It's directed at the following people:
Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes?Those who linger long at the wine, Those who go in search of mixed wine. - Proverbs 23:29-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs23:29-30&version=NKJV
FOR THOSE PEOPLE:
Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it swirls around smoothly;At the last it bites like a serpent, And stings like a viper.Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will utter perverse things.Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying:“They have struck me, but I was not hurt; They have beaten me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink? ” - Proverbs 23:31-35 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs23:31-35&version=NKJV
The author is providing wisdom to people "who linger long at the wine" and "who go in search of mixed wine."
In other words, THOSE WHO LIKE TO DRINK OFTEN!
A good Christian friend of mine was a worthless drunk for several years before the Lord helped him quit drinking. He said alcoholism starts with the first drink. We teach our kids not to play with fire. Don't dabble in alcohol because the devil may grab you like a leech and turn you into an alcoholic and you will rue the day you ever took your first drink.
Good for him. Your anecdotal data point doesn't change the fact that the Bible does not forbid the drinking of alcohol.
Let every man be persuaded in his own mind.
Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Which is just you copping out, because you cannot deny that Scripture clearly does not forbid the drinking of alcohol.
You should humble yourself, and learn to admit when you're wrong, when you have been shown to be so.
Maybe you think God's admonition to not look on the wine does not really mean anything, but I do. I sense a message from God that something about wine-bibbing is forbidden although you have not made it clear what is and what is not forbidden.
Of course it means something. But it doesn't mean what you say it means.
:yawn:
Edit: Correction on my part: wine-bibbing, as GD mentioned on the next page, is being drunk.
I have. You've ignored me. Let me repeat myself:
DRUNKENNESS is what's wrong. Not drinking.
Last edited:
glorydaz
Well-known member
You're simply confused....preaching law does that every time.