Faithful Christians abstain from drinking alcohol

[glorydaz]

Maybe you think God's admonition to not look on the wine does not really mean anything, but I do. I sense a message from God that something about wine-bibbing is forbidden although you have not made it clear what is and what is not forbidden.

You know that a winebibber is a drunkard, don't you?

Eating and drinking is normal. Being gluttonous and a winebibber means over indulgence. That is what people should avoid.

Matt. 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

 

[marke]

You're simply confused....preaching law does that every time.

Is it wrong to preach against murder, drunkenness, lying, or other sins outlined in the law?

 

[musterion]

Paul is the apostle sent by God to us.

Paul could have said, don't ever drink at all. He didn't.

 

[musterion]

the devil may...turn you into an alcoholic

So drunkenness is the Devil's fault?

 

[Idolater]

Faithful Christians abstain from drinking alcohol

And faithful Christians don't abstain from drinking alcohol too, just different faithful Christians from the faithful Christians you're talking about.

Strong drink is very bad and anyone wishing to please God will stay away from all alcoholic beverages that lead to drunkenness.

I would say that strong drink is in the same category of other strong drugs.

Like sugar is not a strong drug, it can modify your personality a little, by increasing your blood sugar quickly, but even then it's not a strong drug, it doesn't modify your personality as much as strong drugs do. Caffeine is a little stronger than sugar is, but I don't think caffeine and nicotine are strong drugs either. Not like strong drink is a strong drug.

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

I'd say the same for strong drugs. Strong drugs are mockers, strong drugs are raging, and whosoever is deceived by strong drugs is not wise.

As a matter of fact it could be that what's meant by "whosoever is deceived by" wine is to establish one way to keep track of how much drinking is too much drinking: Are you in your right mind, or are you deceived? If you're deceived, you've had too much to drink.

 

[marke]

Paul is the apostle sent by God to us.

Paul could have said, don't ever drink at all. He didn't.

The Bible tends to discourage if not condemn altogether the drinking of alcoholic beverages but those who want to push the envelope can do so at their own risk.

 

[marke]

And faithful Christians don't abstain from drinking alcohol too, just different faithful Christians from the faithful Christians you're talking about.

I would say that strong drink is in the same category of other strong drugs.

Like sugar is not a strong drug, it can modify your personality a little, by increasing your blood sugar quickly, but even then it's not a strong drug, it doesn't modify your personality as much as strong drugs do. Caffeine is a little stronger than sugar is, but I don't think caffeine and nicotine are strong drugs either. Not like strong drink is a strong drug.

I'd say the same for strong drugs. Strong drugs are mockers, strong drugs are raging, and whosoever is deceived by strong drugs is not wise.

As a matter of fact it could be that what's meant by "whosoever is deceived by" wine is to establish one way to keep track of how much drinking is too much drinking: Are you in your right mind, or are you deceived? If you're deceived, you've had too much to drink.

Justifying alcoholic beverages by comparing them to sugar is just another attempt to push the envelope by looking for ways to allow a little of what God calls a bad thing.

 

[Idolater]

Justifying alcoholic beverages by comparing them to sugar is just another attempt to push the envelope by looking for ways to allow a little of what God calls a bad thing.

I compared it to cocaine and meth.

 

[marke]

I compared it to cocaine and meth.

So you also did. Cocaine and meth cannot justify violating God's admonition not to look on fermented beverages.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Bible tends to discourage if not condemn altogether the drinking of alcoholic beverages

No, Marke, it DOESN'T!

AND THIS ENTIRE THREAD SO FAR exists as evidence of that!

What it DOES "discourage if not condemn altogether" is drunkenness, NOT DRINKING!

but those who want to push the envelope can do so at their own risk.

Which is completely fine, but doesn't prove your position.

 

[JudgeRightly]

drunkenness

Drunkenness is what's wrong. Drinking is not.

 

[Right Divider]

The Bible tends to discourage if not condemn altogether the drinking of alcoholic beverages but those who want to push the envelope can do so at their own risk.

Again, you keep pushing this false narrative. The Bible condemns drunkenness and not drinking.

Christ was not claimed to be a wine-bibber by drinking grape juice.

 

[marke]

No, Marke, it DOESN'T!

AND THIS ENTIRE THREAD SO FAR exists as evidence of that!

What it DOES "discourage if not condemn altogether" is drunkenness, NOT DRINKING!



Which is completely fine, but doesn't prove your position.

Drunkenness is a relative term relative to differing levels of inebriation, ranging from slightly inebriated to deeply inebriated. God does not condone any drunkenness at any level of intoxification.

 

[marke]

Drunkenness is what's wrong. Drinking is not.

Those who don't drink do not push the envelope of God's approval by flirting with intoxification.

 

[marke]

Again, you keep pushing this false narrative. The Bible condemns drunkenness and not drinking.

Christ was not claimed to be a wine-bibber by drinking grape juice.

Christ was falsely accused of being a wine-bibber just as He was falsely accused of being of the devil.

 

[Right Divider]

Christ was falsely accused of being a wine-bibber just as He was falsely accused of being of the devil.

Yes, I know that it was a false accusation.
But they could not have attempted such a false accusation against someone that was an alcohol abstainer.

Logic and reasoning seem to be beyond your pay grade.

 

[marke]

Yes, I know that it was a false accusation.
But thye could not have attempted such a false accusation against someone that was an alcohol abstainer.

Logic and reasoning seem to be beyond your pay grade.

You are right. I do not qualify as a wise or mighty man among men.

 

[Right Divider]

You are right. I do not qualify as a wise or mighty man among men.

Try to twist it any way that you want. That's what children do when caught behaving incorrectly.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Drunkenness is a relative term relative to differing levels of inebriation, ranging from slightly inebriated to deeply inebriated.

Yes, and it's different for every person. Some people have a high tolerance for alcohol, some get wasted on a single sip.

The prohibition in the Bible is on people losing control of their faculties.

God does not condone any drunkenness at any level of intoxification.

Again, the entire thread is there for everyone to see that this is simply false.

Those who don't drink do not push the envelope of God's approval by flirting with intoxification.

So what?

 

[musterion]

The Bible tends to discourage if not condemn altogether the drinking of alcoholic beverages but those who want to push the envelope can do so at their own risk.

No one is saying there isn't risk, recklessness, etc, just as there is with overeating (gluttony).

The question is, Is God displeased when someone drinks at all, even without becoming anywhere close to drunk?

If He were, the Bible would be unmistakably, consistently clear on the point. But...

Example, as has been pointed out, Paul says elders should not be given to MUCH wine...not NO wine.

If you want to place a prohibition upon yourself against drinking, as I have (but for different reasons), you're at liberty to do so and no one can or should judge you for it.

But when you start speaking for God on something He simply did not say, you'd best be careful.

The above is from one who no longer drinks, fwiw. Could I? Yep. Do I? Nope.