Yes, he testified he was the chief of sinners.
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Faithful Christians abstain from drinking alcohol
- Thread starter marke
- Start date
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Thanks be to God that he repented of his former ways.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, if you're teaching the law then you're preaching a false gospel.
Surely you don't want to be held accountable for teaching a false gospel....one not intended for ANYONE today?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't agree, actually. I've found that people need to see the carrot before the stick is revealed.
Where can we look for help in our time of trouble? Preach Christ and Him crucified.
Their sin is not the important thing, that will be made clear AFTER they see Christ and what He did on the cross.
They won't think what Christ did on the cross applies to them if don't think they are sinful. This is why Galatians 3:24 says the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ. What verses are you using for your position on this issue?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I think everyone knows they are sinners.
Romans 1:19-20
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Paul obviously remained in a state of humility and repentance for the rest of his life after he was saved, as he should have.
I do not agree with every individual interpretation that finds its way into the mind and out of the mouth of the poorly educated student of the Bible.
Psalm 119:97
O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them
musterion
Well-known member
The Law has a place in the life of the Christian?
The law still serves a valuable purpose in the lives of modern Christians. The OT was written for Christians more than for Jews, especially Jews who had died before the books of the law had been written. All scripture is written for Christians.
2 Timothy 3:15-17
King James Version
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
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1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
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Here is an example of what Christians are to learn from the law:
1 Corinthians 9:8-10
King James Version
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
musterion
Well-known member
Good, I have your attention. I don't think you answered this:
Paul advised Timothy to drink wine, and stipulated that elders not be not given to MUCH wine. Paul never told anyone not to drink alcohol under any circumstance, as you're advising.
Is Paul guilty of sin in this?
You have an opinion on this. Let's have it.
No, I do not think Paul was wrong to advise Timothy to drink wine, even if it was alcoholic. There are exceptions to the ingesting of alcohol in the Bible, but those are exceptions, not rules designed to skirt around to will of God to satisfy carnal lusts.
Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Never appoint an elder to the church who is known for his drinking. How much? Use common sense and ask for the Lord's guidance. Is the verse a green light for Christians to drink in moderation? Maybe, but Christians still need to pray to God for His leading before they drink alcohol, since the Bible is very hard on drunkards.
musterion
Well-known member
Under grace, the Mosaic Law does not exist for those dead by the Cross and now alive in Christ. They are at liberty to drink (with self control) if their conscience allows it because Paul nowhere issued a blanket prohibition. If one's conscience won't allow it, they are free not to drink. But neither one is under God's condemnation and neither should judge the other.
The concern some of us have here, I think, is trying to impose the restrictions of one's conscience upon others who do not share that same restriction. That is a problem--it's passing judgment where God is not.
Keep in mind, this is the opinion/conviction of one who no longer drinks.
By the way...you keep citing Israel's Law. Is there a general prohibition against drinking in the Law? Not against drunkenness...against drinking? I'm honestly not sure but don't recall one.
The concern some of us have here, I think, is trying to impose the restrictions of one's conscience upon others who do not share that same restriction. That is a problem--it's passing judgment where God is not.
Keep in mind, this is the opinion/conviction of one who no longer drinks.
By the way...you keep citing Israel's Law. Is there a general prohibition against drinking in the Law? Not against drunkenness...against drinking? I'm honestly not sure but don't recall one.
Does God want us to teach kids it is OK to drink or does He want us to teach kids drinking is not a good idea? Or maybe God is OK with whatever?
I'm going to keep teaching that God does not encourage people to drink because of the harm that can lead to.
