Faith to believe on Christ !

[Jerry Shugart]

I teach that God has chosen each person's name before the foundation of the world. God seeks out that person and then God personally gives each person this gift...even though these person's do not merit such a gift.

According to your theory only certain people have the ability to believe the gospel. However, the words of Paul here demonstrates that even those who are perishing have the ability to believe:

"And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Cor.4:3-4).​

The gospel is hidden to those who are perishing and the god of this age, Satan, is responsible for the gospel being hidden from them. Satan blinded their minds to the gospel for one purpose, "so that they cannot see the light of the gospel."

The fact that the minds of those who are perishing can be "blinded" to the gospel proves that they have the ability to see it if their minds were not blinded to it. After all, one must be able to see before being blinded can happen.

This demonstrates that even those who are perishing have the ability to believe the gospel and as a result receive salvation. Therefore, it cannot be denied that the Lord's death and the blessings which flow from that death have the potential to be applied to even those who are perishing.

 

[beloved57]

All men aren't given the ability to believe on Christ, for God hides truth about Christ from them. Jesus indicates this a couple of times, when giving thanks to the Father saying Matt 11:25,26

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

This is according solely to Gods own good pleasure !

And again its indicated in Jesus own words Matt 13:10-11

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

To them that are lost, the Gospel is hid 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

These will not be given Faith to believe in Christ through the Gospel, because they're lost !

 

[beloved57]

jerry

The fact that the minds of those who are perishing can be "blinded" to the gospel proves that they have the ability to see it if their minds were not blinded to it. After all, one must be able to see before being blinded can happen.

False, proves they dont have the ability to see it, because they are blinded! Man is naturally blinded by the devil, born blind. Even the elect are born blind spiritually, difference between the elect and non elect is that Christ died for the elect and for them destroyed the blinding work of the devil for them 1 Jn 3:8

[FONT=&quot]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might [/FONT]destroy the works of the devil.

So the elect will be saved out of spiritual blindness by the work of Christ ! Not so with the none elect, they are permanently blinded by satan !

 

[Nanja]

All men aren't given the ability to believe on Christ, for God hides truth about Christ from them. Jesus indicates this a couple of times, when giving thanks to the Father saying Matt 11:25,26

[FONT=&]25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

This is according solely to Gods own good pleasure !

And again its indicated in Jesus own words Matt 13:10-11
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

To them that are lost, the Gospel is hid 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

These will not be given Faith to believe in Christ through the Gospel, because they're lost ![/FONT]

Amen, the Truth about Christ is hidden from men as they are born in time.

For God's Elect, Christ's Sheep, reconciled to God while enemies by Rom. 5:9-10, and given Grace before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9, it's only temporary while being in an experimentally lost state until they are born again and given the fruit of Faith Gal. 5:22 by the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit 1 Pet. 1:2; 2 Thes. 2:13; 2 Cor. 4:6.

However, the non-elect, the goats predestinated to hell Prov. 16:4; Mat. 25:41 are permanently lost and shall remain in unbelief all their lives, because when they hear the Word of Truth about Christ, their father the devil Mat. 13:38 takes it away Luke 8:12, "lest they should believe and be saved".


Job 23:13-14

23 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

24 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.


Is. 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

 

[beloved57]

Its by Christ we do believe in God, the True God, for we read in 1 Pet 1:20-21

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

So the Faith in God here Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

That Faith by or through, or because of Jesus Christ !

 

[Nanja]

Its by Christ we do believe in God, the True God, for we read in 1 Pet 1:20-21

[FONT=&]20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

So the Faith in God here Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

That Faith by or through, or because of Jesus Christ ![/FONT]

Amen ! Faith, believing and coming to God are actually one and the same, a redemptive blessing given in New Birth Gal. 5:22 exclusively for those Christ died for [Sheep], and which causes them to Hope in God.

1 Pet. 1:21

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[7djengo7]

How do you/we, know that you are one of "the Elect?" Unpack it for us.

MennoSota is never going to answer a single question you ask him. He'll react to every single post you submit, doubtless. But, it will never be to answer your questions! It will only be to try to vent his frustration that he cannot answer your questions, that he cannot defend his ideology, that he cannot get you under his thumb. What should you expect from MennoSota? Peruse through my posts, and his posts in reaction to them. You will find throughout his posts that, out of his frustration over his inability to answer any of my questions, he displays a real passion for very often typing the word 'pretzel', for no reason. All the text he writes is insipid, banal, and is not even the least bit seasoned with salt; maybe he thinks that throwing the word 'pretzel' into his posts will supply that lack. Eventually, his passion grew, and he started venting his frustration by submitting posts in which he wrote no words at all, but merely pasted in pictures of pretzels he found on Google.

But, look at this syllogism I presented to him:

Major Premise: All false teachers are non-elect,
Minor Premise: Greg Boyd is a false teacher,
Ergo,
Conclusion: Greg Boyd is non-elect,​

MennoSota believes both the major premise and the minor premise. Yet, he utterly refuses to profess his agreement with the necessary consequence of that syllogism. He refuses to personally declare that Greg Boyd is non-elect, despite the necessary entailment of that proposition from the very premises which he, himself, thinks are true! I asked him if he thinks Greg Boyd is non-elect, and he tried to be politic (as Calvinists realize they must be when they are asked such a question) by saying he doesn't know whether Greg Boyd is non-elect. He is a brazen enemy of thinking logically. But, what do you expect from a 50-year-old male given to typing "LOL" in every other post, and frequently displaying gladness at the dire situation of those whom he considers to be lost, unregenerate, unbelievers, under God's wrath?

So, yeah. MennoSota is definitely never going to even try to answer any questions you ask him about Calvinism, and he knows he can't. All you will get from him is perpetual dishonesty and puerile stonewalling tactics. And, he'll get the last word, every time, or, in some cases, it won't even be a word, but a picture he likes a lot.

At one point, MennoSota even admitted that he believes he was once, simultaneously, both elect AND a servant of the devil.

 

[MennoSota]

How do you/we, know that you are one of "the Elect?" Unpack it for us.

You don't. You don't live with or around me.
I know because I was once dead in my trespasses and sins, but God made me alive in Christ Jesus. God, by his grace, gave me the gift of faith and has given me good things to do.

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

Your opinion means nothing. All that matters is Christ. He either makes me stand or He doesn't. Christ has made me stand. I am eternally grateful to God for His unmerited favor.

 

[7djengo7]

You don't. You don't live with or around me.
I know because I was once dead in my trespasses and sins, but God made me alive in Christ Jesus. God, by his grace, gave me the gift of faith and has given me good things to do.

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

Your opinion means nothing. All that matters is Christ. He either makes me stand or He doesn't. Christ has made me stand. I am eternally grateful to God for His unmerited favor.

You believe that God saved you by His grace WHEN YOU BELIEVED. Which means that God did not save you by His grace BEFORE YOU BELIEVED. And, since you're 50 years old, you are admitting that it has only been within the last 50 years that God saved you by His grace. So, indeed, you were not saved 2,000 years ago, when Jesus died on the cross, since that historical event was 2,000 years BEFORE YOU BELIEVED. So, for 2,000 years, you were SAVEABLE, not SAVED.

 

[MennoSota]

You believe that God saved you by His grace WHEN YOU BELIEVED. Which means that God did not save you by His grace BEFORE YOU BELIEVED. And, since you're 50 years old, you are admitting that it has only been within the last 50 years that God saved you by His grace. So, indeed, you were not saved 2,000 years ago, when Jesus died on the cross, since that historical event was 2,000 years BEFORE YOU BELIEVED. So, for 2,000 years, you were SAVEABLE, not SAVED.

LOL

 

[7djengo7]

You don't. You don't live with or around me.
I know because I was once dead in my trespasses and sins, but God made me alive in Christ Jesus. God, by his grace, gave me the gift of faith and has given me good things to do.

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

Your opinion means nothing. All that matters is Christ. He either makes me stand or He doesn't. Christ has made me stand. I am eternally grateful to God for His unmerited favor.

You are saying that nobody, with the exception of yourself, knows that you are elect. Would you say it is a two-way street, then? That you do not know who is elect, with the exception of yourself?

If you are the only person who knows that you are elect, then, when others call you their brother in Christ, and have fellowship with you, they are obviously doing so while not knowing that you are elect. Perhaps they are just guessing, or opining, then? Perhaps you are just guessing, or opining, that so-and-so is elect when you call him/her your brother/sister in Christ, and fellowship with him/her? Perhaps others' opinions should, maybe, mean a little something to you?

 

[MennoSota]

You are saying that nobody, with the exception of yourself, knows that you are elect. Would you say it is a two-way street, then? That you do not know who is elect, with the exception of yourself?

If you are the only person who knows that you are elect, then, when others call you their brother in Christ, and have fellowship with you, they are obviously doing so while not knowing that you are elect. Perhaps they are just guessing, or opining, then? Perhaps you are just guessing, or opining, that so-and-so is elect when you call him/her your brother/sister in Christ, and fellowship with him/her? Perhaps others' opinions should, maybe, mean a little something to you?

I said what I said. Look it up. The fact that you cannot grasp what I said makes you look silly.

 

[john w]

You don't. You don't live with or around me.
I know because I was once dead in my trespasses and sins, but God made me alive in Christ Jesus. God, by his grace, gave me the gift of faith and has given me good things to do.

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

Your opinion means nothing. All that matters is Christ. He either makes me stand or He doesn't. Christ has made me stand. I am eternally grateful to God for His unmerited favor.

Translation: He admits, again, on record, that he knows he is saved, by his works, examining his lifestyle.


Calvinism is just another warmed over form of Catholicism, Mormonism.

 

[beloved57]

Why all men dont have Faith ?

2 Thess 3:2

[FONT=&quot]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked [/FONT]men: for all men have not faith.

Its because all men are not Christs Sheep Jn 10:26

26 [FONT=&quot]But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.[/FONT]

 

[Nanja]

Why all men dont have Faith ?

2 Thess 3:2

[FONT="]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked [/FONT][/COLOR][B]men: [U]for [/U][B][U]all [/U][B][U]men have not [/U][B][U]faith[/U].[/B][/B][/B][/B]

Its because all men are not Christs Sheep Jn 10:26

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][B]26 [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.[/FONT]

Exactly, the Faith that all men don't have, is a Fruit and Gift of the Spirit of God which is given exclusively to Christ's Sheep in New Birth Gal.5:22; Eph. 2:8.

Consequently, those who are not Christ's Sheep [goats] will not be given to believe on Him, because they were condemned already.


John 3:18. 36

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


Mat. 25:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand [goats], Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


2 Cor. 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[_000_]

The amount of faith you have in Christ
is confirmed by the amount of Commandments
of Jesus Christ you obey at all times.

The amount of commandments of Jesus Christ
you obey at all times is confirmed by
your faith in Christ.

 

[beloved57]

The amount of faith you have in Christ
is confirmed by the amount of Commandments
of Jesus Christ you obey at all times.

The amount of commandments of Jesus Christ
you obey at all times is confirmed by
your faith in Christ.

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[_000_]

This is a spam comment...

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[beloved57]

Why all men dont have Faith ?

We have already pointed out one reason why all men dont have Faith/Believe, yet another reason is because not all men are the Beloved of the Lord, Chosen from the beginning unto Salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 [FONT=&quot]But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:[/FONT]
The word belief here is the same noun faith in 2 Thess 3:2

So all men dont have belief of the truth because they're not Christ sheep and they are not of those "the Beloved of the Lord, Chosen from the beginning unto Salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

 

[_000_]

Why all men dont have Faith ?

We have already pointed out one reason why all men dont have Faith/Believe, yet another reason is because not all men are the Beloved of the Lord, Chosen from the beginning unto Salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 [FONT="]But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:[/FONT]
The word belief here is the same noun faith in 2 Thess 3:2

So all men dont have belief of the truth because they're not Christ sheep and they are not of those "the Beloved of the Lord, Chosen from the beginning unto Salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

The children of God are called
and are the few that are chosen
by God.

The children of the devil are called
but are rejected by God.

True or false?