ECT Faith + Obedience = Salvation?

[Jerry Shugart]

If it takes faith plus obedience in order to be saved then what level of obedience is required?

In other words, what must a believer do in order to inherit eternal life according to his obedience? Is he just supposed to do the best that he can do to live a moral life? In my case I know that I have not always done my best to live that kind of a life so am I disqualified from ever attaining the eternal life which is in Christ Jesus?

Let us examine the following exchange between a lawyer and the Lord Jesus Christ where He answered the question of what level of obedience it takes to inherit eternal life:

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live" (Lk.10:25-28).​

If we fall short of that is our hope of salvation lost? If not,how many times do we get to fail but still have a chance to be saved?

Perhaps those who teach that both faith and obedience are required for salvation can answer that question.

Thanks!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Where are those who teach that no one can be saved except by faith and obedience?

Do they not want to share their wisdom with us?

 

[beloved57]

In my religion the Lord Jesus Christ has already provided for the many He represented that exact perfect obedience to Gods Law as He required of the young man who made the inquiry. So they whom He represented are entitled to the inheriting of eternal life that He specified to the young man.

Rom 5:19

[FONT=&quot]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.




​His obedience here includes His law keeping Obedience ![/FONT]

 

[jamie]

Salvation is by grace through faith, but for what purpose?

Why are people saved?

Are we created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them? Or should we just do as we please?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Salvation is by grace through faith, but for what purpose?

Why are people saved?

Are we created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them? Or should we just do as we please?

What shall we say then... is faith by "obedience" and salvation free with a cost? Do we now claim that we are "more" righteous than we once were?

This wording "sounds" inspirational... but the second our efforts enter the picture... His become invalidated. His power is perfected in weaknesses... shall I go on?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

In my religion the Lord Jesus Christ has already provided for the many He represented that exact perfect obedience to Gods Law as He required of the young man who made the inquiry. So they whom He represented are entitled to the inheriting of eternal life that He specified to the young man.

Rom 5:19

[FONT="]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.




​His obedience here includes His law keeping Obedience ![/FONT]

It almost sound enlightening... now tell us about the divine lottery you won again? I would agree with you to a degree, but the law keeping of Christ and His imputed righteousness is a dismissal of our debt.

How exactly does God choose His Elect? Are some counted as more worthy and righteous than others? In my rel... wait... I above all religion but what James prescribes.

Ownership and religion are a tricky bunch. Beware their allure... they tend to "bite" people.... in the END.

 

[jamie]

This wording "sounds" inspirational... but the second our efforts enter the picture... His become invalidated. His power is perfected in weaknesses... shall I go on?

Good point, when Jesus told the church they must overcome it was probably because he wanted them to remain spiritually weak and be blown about with every wind of doctrine, right?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Salvation is by grace through faith, but for what purpose?

Since salvation is by grace through faith why did you say this on another thread?:

Only those who obey him receive his Spirit. Those who don't receive his Spirit are not his.

Tell me what level of obedience must a believer have in order to receive His Spirit.

 

[jamie]

Tell me what level of obedience must a believer have in order to receive His Spirit.

Complete.

 

[jamie]

There are some people on TOL that if Jesus told them to jump they would jump.

There are others that would tell Jesus we don't do that anymore.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Complete.

So if a believer does not always and in every way treat his neighbor as himself then that believer will not receive the Spirit?:

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live" (Lk.10:25-28).​

There are some people on TOL that if Jesus told them to jump they would jump.

There are others that would tell Jesus we don't do that anymore.

Do you follow this command of the Lord Jesus?:

"Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not" (Mt.23:1-3).​

 

[jsanford108]

If it takes faith plus obedience in order to be saved then what level of obedience is required?

In other words, what must a believer do in order to inherit eternal life according to his obedience? Is he just supposed to do the best that he can do to live a moral life? In my case I know that I have not always done my best to live that kind of a life so am I disqualified from ever attaining the eternal life which is in Christ Jesus?

If we fall short of that is our hope of salvation lost? If not,how many times do we get to fail but still have a chance to be saved?

Perhaps those who teach that both faith and obedience are required for salvation can answer that question.

Thanks!

Hello Jerry,

No worries. I am here, as a firm believer in Christ, to answer your questions.

I obviously (as several posts can affirm) hold to faith+works doctrine. So, if I may work through each question you posed in the OP.

Level of Obedience required: I would answer, complete obedience. As would every Bible believer, hopefully. Yes we fall short due to our love of sin, but that is why we must repent, right? Is not repentance a work which we do to right ourselves with Christ/God? If we do not repent, we are classified as "unrepentant" sinners.

I think that answers the first two paragraphs.

If we fall short, is salvation lost: This is a trickier question to answer. And at this point, my Catholic beliefs align with the whole of Scripture, but clash with Protestant doctrines.

Salvation can be lost. If you turn from God, would you say your salvation is lost? A Protestant talking to a Protestant would say "well, not really," but they have no logical reasoning to back this up. Scriptures say that the one unforgivable sin is "forsaking the Holy Spirit," correct? Which, by definition, is a turning from God/Christ/Holy Spirt, no? And what are we doing when we knowingly choose to sin? We are choosing a temporal pleasure over God.

Here is where the different types of sin come into play (venial vs mortal), but that could be diving deeper than you desired into the topic of sin. Therefore, I will abstain from that topic.

Do we have a chance to be saved: Yes. Absolutely. Amen, brother, we do! That is repentance. He who seeks forgiveness is forgiven.

I hope this rather long post has answered your questions. And I hope it has left many more educated on the topic of faith+works doctrine.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Danoh]

There are some people on TOL that if Jesus told them to jump they would jump.

There are others that would tell Jesus we don't do that anymore.

Genesis 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Exodus 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

Ur, um, LORD...we don't do that anymore...

32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

Not anymore...

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

What else ya got :chuckle:

 

[God's Truth]

If it takes faith plus obedience in order to be saved then what level of obedience is required?

You must trust Jesus and do what he says. He will save you when he accepts you (Acts 15:8).

In other words, what must a believer do in order to inherit eternal life according to his obedience?

The scriptures say the message is sent to those who do right, and to God fearing Gentiles (Acts 13:26). So it would be good if you thought about whether or not you fear God.
There is something Jesus says you must do or you will never enter, and that is that we have to humble ourselves. Humbling yourself is something else that makes your heart right for Jesus to live in. Jesus says he came to save sinners. You must admit that you are a sinner to be saved. You should think of all the sins that you are doing and have done and repent of them. Forgive others and do what you can to stop sinning, call on Jesus to help you. He will know if you put him before anyone and anything in this life. He will know if you will give up waiting for him, or if you would search for Him forever.

Is he just supposed to do the best that he can do to live a moral life? In my case I know that I have not always done my best to live that kind of a life so am I disqualified from ever attaining the eternal life which is in Christ Jesus?

If you do sin, then ask for forgiveness. Jesus says that those who have been forgiven much, they love more.
When Jesus saves a person, he himself lives in their heart. You will feel this when it happens. God pours His love for us in our heart by the Holy Spirit, which is love, for that is what God is, Love.

Jesus says he makes his home with those who obey (John 14:23), when Jesus makes his home with you that is when you are given the Holy Spirit.

When you are filled with the Holy Spirit, you will want to live through it and you can only do that by continuing to obey Jesus' teachings, his teachings are Spirit and life.

Let us examine the following exchange between a lawyer and the Lord Jesus Christ where He answered the question of what level of obedience it takes to inherit eternal life:

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live" (Lk.10:25-28).​

If we fall short of that is our hope of salvation lost?

Jesus knew the rich man cared more about his wealth than about God, for Jesus was in the flesh right in front of him, but he did not want to leave his home and become a traveling minister with Jesus. That does not mean Jesus wants us all to give up our homes and become traveling ministers, but he does want us to examine our hearts and put him before anyone and anything.

After Jesus saves a person, after the person obeys, Jesus reveals himself to him, and gives understanding. That does not mean you do not have to watch your doctrine and life carefully anymore, for we have to watch ourselves. It does not mean you do not have to check the scriptures and study them.

If not,how many times do we get to fail but still have a chance to be saved?

Never give up, never give out, never give in. Want it more than you want anything.

Perhaps those who teach that both faith and obedience are required for salvation can answer that question.
Thanks!

I am so glad that you ask these questions.

 

[Danoh]

Oh, and Jerry, if before you confess all your sins - a truck happens to run you over: well, to bad; your goose is cooked.

Right, GT?

:down:

 

[DAN P]

Oh, and Jerry, if before you confess all your sins - a truck happens to run you over: well, to bad; your goose is cooked.

Right, GT?

:down:

Hi and how heavy does that TRUCK have to be , 1/2 or 3/4 or maybe a 1 ton ?

It is obviously God's Truth has not read 1 or 2:14 , no Grace and no Repentance here at all !!

Will he explain 1 Cor 2:14 ??

Can he explain how he was SAVED , I doubt it

I see that AMR is here , maybe he can help you ??

dan p

 

[God's Truth]

Hi and how heavy does that TRUCK have to be , 1/2 or 3/4 or maybe a 1 ton ?

It is obviously God's Truth has not read 1 or 2:14 , no Grace and no Repentance here at all !!

Will he explain 1 Cor 2:14 ??

Can he explain how he was SAVED , I doubt it

I see that AMR is here , maybe he can help you ??

dan p

That scripture is about a man who only wants to please his flesh.

Those who only want to please their flesh, they will not allow themselves to think of coming to God and repenting.

 

[oatmeal]

What was the rule in the gospel period was replaced by Romans 10:9. Why? Because " it is finished".

 

[God's Truth]

What was the rule in the gospel period was replaced by Romans 10:9. Why? Because " it is finished".

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Jesus didn't die so that no one has to obey anymore.
Read what the scripture in Romans says that you quoted.
Paul says declare with your mouth Jesus is Lord.
What does Jesus say about saying with your mouth Jesus is Lord?

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.


James says that faith alone is dead and that when Abraham had faith and it was counted as righteousness, it was the faith he had with obedience.


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

 

[DAN P]

That scripture is about a man who only wants to please his flesh.

Those who only want to please their flesh, they will not allow themselves to think of coming to God and repenting.

Hi and not so !!

Where kis that in 1 Cor 2:14 , you have to be KIDDING !!

It is obviously , that you have no clue as to what 1 Cor 2:14 MEANS , as the NATURAL MAN can not understand the written word of God ??

dan p