Evolution

[Frank Ernest]

Creation

Creation

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)

No time frame given. Science boys and girls tell me that was about 4.3 billion years ago for the earth. Sounds good to me.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was (Heb. transliteration "hayah" - became) without form (Heb. transliteration "tohuw" - desolate) and void (Heb. transliteration - "bohuw" - empty, ruined) and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And so, we have a heaven and earth created around 4.3 billion years ago. The earth became desolate and ruined at some point (no time frame). The last sentence of verse 2 indicates that God, at some point (no time frame) decided to replenish or renew, not create, the earth. Earth was already created and had been around for a long time.

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by brother Willi

to you that may seem true.

It's not only for me 'seemingly true'. Just read all posts here - evolutionists' says are full of proofs, while creationists reply with something like: 'I don't think so', 'that is not a proof', 'I don't think we should discuss it' or something like that. Why don't you use scientific arguments???

Originally posted by brother Willi
what if 2 is rounded of ?

2.4+2.4+2.4=

This has nothing to do with what I said. Read my post one more time and you'll understand why.

Originally posted by brother Willi
what you say is it cant evolve fast enough for a flood, yet it changed ove millions of years.

leaching ever effect dating?

ocean animals C-14 good?

how old is the dirt we burried our cat in?

I don't want to be offensive, but it seems you have some problem with articulation...

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by Stratnerd

> Have you ever found any fossilized human bone?

There's both out there!

>> Let me give you a piece of advice: if you find a dinosaur's bone which is not completely fossilized sell it to genecists. They will extract DNA and recreate dinosaurs. You will be famous and rich! <<

because there's bone doesn't means there's DNA... at least nothing we could possibly recover and be useful. Why are you equating the two?

Read this please: http://www.vertpaleo.org/jvp/17-349-359.html

Send me a picture of fossilized human bone and non-fossilized dinosaur one.

 

[Morphy]

BTW:

I'm still waiting for creationists to refute my thesis:

If we know that:

1. genes can change over time
2. changes can be passed to posterity and
3. enviroment favours some specific features

then we can figure out that life evolves... It is pretty clear and consistent. And what we actually can see perfectly corroborates that theory - and one of the best examples is growing bacterial resistance to antibiotics. It has nothing to do with god! If you think it is otherwise - show me better explanation...

If you think evolution is absurd - why don't you find a mistake in the above thesis??? It should be easy for you... you are so selfconfident. Come on, refute it!!!

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by brother Willi

make life then we can talk.

I've already created - my wife is pregnant.

Seriously - give me a planet of approximately Earth size with very few oxygen in atmoshpere, thunderstorms, plenty of ammonia (more or less like the Earth 3 billion years ago) and a few hundreds millions years and I'll show you.

Originally posted by brother Willi
did life start here on earth, or in outer space?

How many water molecules in the universe?
How many planets is in the universe?
How many stars?
How could I possibly know???

For sure we know in the Earth 3 billion years ago were conditions making synthesis of basic organic molecules possible (ie. aminoacids, DNA and RNA nucleotides, cell membranes and so on).

But life could be brought on meteorites as well... nobody knows...

Do you know who created first computer virus? Probably nobody, except for few men, knows but it doesn't mean computer viruses were created by god...

Originally posted by brother Willi
if its everywhere, why not make some?

Geneticists have already done... Have you seen a picture of mouse with human ear on it's back?

You may not know it, but all hepatitis B virus vaccines are produced by genetically modified bacteria. And it wasn't god who has modified them. It was human being.

 

[niceval4u]

I have stated the facts as I know it.
1. Basic genes from man do not change to an animal nor does the genes of an animal change into human genes.
2. Yes there are certain traits in humans that can be passed down from generation to generation. But none of these traits come from any other source but humans.
3. I do not understand this argument.

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by niceval4u

I have stated the facts as I know it.
1. Basic genes from man do not change to an animal nor does the genes of an animal change into human genes.

WRONG!!!

All genes can change - if they didn't change there would be no cancers whatsoever.

Vast majority of human genes are either similar or identical to animal ones.
Do you know that before genetically modified bacteria we used pig's insulin to treat men? Do you know why? Because it is almost identical.

Some very old genetically genes present in human genome can be found even in bacteria, plants and yeasts!!!

Originally posted by niceval4u
2. Yes there are certain traits in humans that can be passed down from generation to generation. But none of these traits come from any other source but humans.

That's why we differentiate man from pig, plant or bacterium.
There are very few specifically human traits, and they evolved because they increased the chance of getting food and having posterity.

For example: human hands have opposing thumb, like monkeys, but the big toe is not in opposition to other toes (unlike monkeys'), because it decreases the chance of injury. So opposing big toe is specifically human, but it's construction, joints, ligaments, hair covering it - all is almost like gorilla's... If men were moving like chimpanzees or gorillas it would be no specifically human feature...

So specifically human traits is an argument FOR evolution, not against. Exactly the same as specifically bat's, pig's, dog's and any other animal's traits... It proves evolution not refutes it.

So thank you for backing me up.

Originally posted by niceval4u
3. I do not understand this argument.

Because you don't understand theory of evolution!!! That is why you deny it. You simply don't know what evolution is all about!!!

See the next post.

 

[niceval4u]

Hello Frank Ernest
If God created the earth and all that is in it then time did not exist until He created it. Where billions of years comes from beats me. If God's word is truth then we must accept it as truth. So when God did create one day then we must understand that it was a literal day. We cannot change God's word to suit ourselves, we should His word to change us.
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Where is the billions of years that you speak within these verses.
Love
Val

 

[Morphy]

Since niceval4u doesn't understand theory of evolution, I've decided to describe what most of you is hopelessly trying refute.

Some traits increase the chance of having a posterity, getting more food or being healthier. Thus organisms having such traits prevail in population over time, ergo there are more genes coding such traits. It means the worst genes disappear, bad ones are getting rarer, good ones are prevailing and the best ones are present in almost every creature.

Genes spontaneusly mutate (that's why there are cancers) due to mistakes in DNA synthesis, viruses, some chemical substances, radiation and so on. Therefore with every generation there are new genes. Bad ones are usually not passed to posterity, good ones usually are. Thus genes in population change (ie. EVOLVE) over time. Changing genes cause changing traits.

If 2 populations of the same species are separated from each other, genes evolve independently, and after some time they may (but not necessarily!!!) be so different that organisms from 1 population cannot impregnate organisms from 2nd population. This is called speciation. It means that previously one species evolved into 2 species.

And this is evolution all about. We can see it all the time around us!!! And denying it without extremely strong arguments is ludiocrous...

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by niceval4u

Hello Frank Ernest
If God created the earth and all that is in it then time did not exist until He created it. Where billions of years comes from beats me. If God's word is truth then we must accept it as truth. So when God did create one day then we must understand that it was a literal day. We cannot change God's word to suit ourselves, we should His word to change us.
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Where is the billions of years that you speak within these verses.
Love
Val

It means there is a mistake in my thesis. Point it and I'll say evolution does not exist.

 

[brother Willi]

Re: Creation

Re: Creation

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)

No time frame given. Science boys and girls tell me that was about 4.3 billion years ago for the earth. Sounds good to me.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was (Heb. transliteration "hayah" - became) without form (Heb. transliteration "tohuw" - desolate) and void (Heb. transliteration - "bohuw" - empty, ruined) and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And so, we have a heaven and earth created around 4.3 billion years ago. The earth became desolate and ruined at some point (no time frame). The last sentence of verse 2 indicates that God, at some point (no time frame) decided to replenish or renew, not create, the earth. Earth was already created and had been around for a long time.

well thought out:thumb:

now for that time shift question:think:

4.3 billion years ?

time do shift.

speed has force in its equasion.

force is acceleration?

can speed exist without acceleration?

UMMMM nope

can speed continue in a vacuem, without acceleration?

UMMM yep.

how can we get speed without acceleration?

 

[brother Willi]

Originally posted by Morphy

I've already created - my wife is pregnant.

Seriously - give me a planet of approximately Earth size with very few oxygen in atmoshpere, thunderstorms, plenty of ammonia (more or less like the Earth 3 billion years ago) and a few hundreds millions years and I'll show you.




How many water molecules in the universe?
How many planets is in the universe?
How many stars?
How could I possibly know???

For sure we know in the Earth 3 billion years ago were conditions making synthesis of basic organic molecules possible (ie. aminoacids, DNA and RNA nucleotides, cell membranes and so on).

But life could be brought on meteorites as well... nobody knows...

Do you know who created first computer virus? Probably nobody, except for few men, knows but it doesn't mean computer viruses were created by god...



Geneticists have already done... Have you seen a picture of muse with human ear on it's back?

You may not know it, but all hepatitis B virus vaccines are produced by genetically modified bacteria. And it wasn't god who has modified them. It was human being.

MAN O MAN

and you folks tell me I live by faith:doh:

you have faith out the washue my friend, you just dont call it that

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by brother Willi
you have faith out the washue my friend, you just dont call it that

Say it in other words, please, I just don't get it. I'm a foreigner, I looked 'washue' up in 5 on-line dictionaries but I haven't found anything

 

[brother Willi]

Originally posted by Morphy

Say it in other words, please, I just don't get it. I'm a foreigner, I looked 'washue' up in 5 on-line dictionaries but I haven't found anything

:doh:
sorry my friend.

it means you have GREAT/MUCH faith

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by brother Willi

:doh:
sorry my friend.

it means you have GREAT/MUCH faith

Ok, thanx

That I can understand without any dictionary

I'm agnostic.

 

[brother Willi]

Originally posted by Morphy

Ok, thanx

That I can understand without any dictionary

I'm agnostic.

why?

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by brother Willi




why?

Because there is no proof god exists... I think existence of god can be neither be proved nor disapproved. That's why.

But I have a strong sympathy for Christians and I want more and more people to belive in god.

 

[brother Willi]

Originally posted by Morphy

Because there is no proof god exists... I think existence of god can be neither be proved nor disapproved. That's why.

But I have a strong sympathy for Christians and I want more and more people to belive in god.

ask questions

its all about free will.

hear that battle in your mind?

thats the knowledge of good and evil.

stand in the light, let your seeds grow

 

[Morphy]

Originally posted by brother Willi

ask questions

That's what I have been doing since I was born

Originally posted by brother Willi
its all about free will.

hear that battle in your mind?

thats the knowledge of good and evil.

stand in the light, let your seeds grow

Oh well, I have tried to believe in god, but it concept of god (I'm sorry if such phrase offends somebody's faith) really doesn't fit to present science (atronomy, cosmology, quantum physics, sociobiology etc.)...

 

[brother Willi]

Originally posted by Morphy

That's what I have been doing since I was born



Oh well, I have tried to believe in god, but it concept of god (I'm sorry if such phrase offends somebody's faith) really doesn't fit to present science (atronomy, cosmology, quantum physics, sociobiology etc.)...

God dont fit what you see?