ECT Ever wonder why dispensationalism has become increasingly despised?

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ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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1Mind1Spirit said:
It pertains......

Since Jerusalem (Babylon) was plowed it's spiritual meaning is all that's left for all men.

Be not like the sow who only makes a sound to it's master when it is hungry, then is only content after getting fed.

Jeremiah 10:15
They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
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You do realize smoking a bong is illegal in most states?
 
njspolk

njspolk

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ClimateSanity said:
Not all of the bible is written with us specifically in mind.
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Oh, I agree with that. But the general idea of holiness benefits modern day Christians in our daily lives and how we live out the gospel. That's why there's an OT and NT in the Christian bible. But it's good for others to read outside of Christianity as well. Just like it's beneficial for a Christian to read the Buddhist sutras, the Koran etc.


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whitestone

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1Mind1Spirit said:
It pertains......

Since Jerusalem (Babylon) was plowed it's spiritual meaning is all that's left for all men.

Be not like the sow who only makes a sound to it's master when it is hungry, then is only content after getting fed.

Jeremiah 10:15
They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
Click to expand...


lol, quoting Chronicon Paschale by Dio Cassius and Hadrian removing the temples remaining stones that Bar Kochba was rebuilding might cause one of us dispensationist to point out all of the stones that were still standing after ad70.

Who was it Eusebius,bishop of caesarea who said something like "at the side of the sanctuary there is a pierced stone. The Jews visit here once a year,pour oil over it lament and weep over it,and tear their garments in token of mourning. Then they return home.",,,something about the "traveler of Bordeaux"in ad333?

or was it John Chrysostom who wrote "The Jews began uncovering the foundations by removing masses of earth intending to go ahead and build,you can see the barred foundations if you visit Jerusalem now,some of its parts are raised to the ground",,,

lol maybe you were only referring to Hadrian,who knows there were so many who spoke of the remaining stones,,,
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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journey said:
First, one must teach the Holy Bible dispensationally to understand it.
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Nope

Dispensationalism didn't exist until 1830 when John Nelson Darby invented it.

To understand the Bible, one must know the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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whitestone said:
might cause one of us dispensationist to point out all of the stones that were still standing after ad70.
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If so, when is Luke 19:43-44 going to be fulfilled?


If Luke 19:43-44 wasn't fulfilled in 70AD, then a third temple would have to be built, and then the entire city of Jerusalem destroyed (including the third temple) would have to be destroyed.

If that's not bizarre enough for you, this future temple being destroyed (along with the entire city of Jerusalem) would be destroyed because of the Jews who rejected Christ Jesus 2,000 years ago.

(Luke 19:44) They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Read the verse Whitestone.

It clearly says the city would be destroyed because YOU did not recognize the time of God's coming to you.

How the heck does "YOU" pertain to some group of people 2,000 years into the future?

Dispensationalism is a mess.
 
heir

heir

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njspolk said:
Oh, I agree with that. But the general idea of holiness benefits modern day Christians in our daily lives and how we live out the gospel. That's why there's an OT and NT in the Christian bible. But it's good for others to read outside of Christianity as well. Just like it's beneficial for a Christian to read the Buddhist sutras, the Koran etc.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
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All scripture is for us, but it's not all to us or about us. Paul writes to the Body of Christ in Romans through Philemon.
 
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Wick Stick

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I would guess that it's just a function of popularity/prevalence. A hundred years ago, hardly anyone had ever heard of Dispensationalism, so there was no counter-movement against it.

Jarrod
 
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whitestone

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tetelestai said:
If so, when is Luke 19:43-44 going to be fulfilled?


If Luke 19:43-44 wasn't fulfilled in 70AD, then a third temple would have to be built, and then the entire city of Jerusalem destroyed (including the third temple) would have to be destroyed.

If that's not bizarre enough for you, this future temple being destroyed (along with the entire city of Jerusalem) would be destroyed because of the Jews who rejected Christ Jesus 2,000 years ago.

(Luke 19:44) They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Read the verse Whitestone.

It clearly says the city would be destroyed because YOU did not recognize the time of God's coming to you.

How the heck does "YOU" pertain to some group of people 2,000 years into the future?

Dispensationalism is a mess.
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It troubles you much it seems when I speak to anyone about those stones or you not having an beast in your eschatology or what I say about the generation's. If I say to you to back up to verse 38 of Luke 19 and look at what he said about "the one coming,the King" you pull out psaltery bags around their necks and speak of the 50 days.

lol, You are confused with me it seems in thinking that I think not every stone would be not standing one upon another, this is not what I said or think. What I think and am saying is that each and every stone will one day not be standing upon another and that it began to take place in the first Jewish revolt but was not completed as you say by ad70.

Now Jesus said that not one stone would be left one upon another and as I said, I believe not one will. So if the Jews who live in Jerusalem by and by do rebuild the temple and they do not raise the wailing wall and the corner stone of it and begin another temple a new,then both me and you are a mess in our eschatology.

Again if there is another temple and it is built on the foundation of that which is still standing,the wailing wall, then it would not be proper to say it is an new 3rd temple, it will forever be the temple that was restored and that through all time the words that Jesus spoke would not be fulfilled. I believe there will be an new temple and I also believe that not one stone of the temple Jesus spoke of, i.e.(2nd) will be then standing. Before this though they will restore the stones still standing and fulfill the remainder of the things spoken of it.


Consider the generations of the heavens and the earth. If they are said to be the generations of the heavens and the earth and they are the six and then the Sabbath then can there be an new earth and and new heaven before the seventh generation has come,,,or will all six days of the generations come and then the millennial and then it be proper to refer to it as an new heaven and an new earth?
 
D

Danoh

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All this time, Tet's been throwing rocks at our window; ignoring his precious Preterism's serious case of kidney stones :chuckle:

He has yet dealt honestly with Preterism's idol: Josephus' writing that all was leveled but the Western Wall and its' Three Towers.

What is Preterism - a teaching full of holes.

tetelestai said:
As we see in this thread, the Darby followers cannot explain Luke 19:43-44 because it's a Death Knell to their Dispensationalism.

(Luke 19:43-44) The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Notice how no Darby follower will address this passage.
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Preterism's actual "bible" the writings of...

JOSEPHUS War of the Jews:
Book 7 - Chapter 1

NOW as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury, (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done,) Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind.
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Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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One of the best summaries of the distinctions between nineteenth century dispensationalism and sixteenth century covenantalism can be read here:

http://goo.gl/Yz5pOB

Romans 2:28-29:
“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.”

The article linked above is the explanatory source behind this helpful table summarizing the two views:
http://www.faithbibleonline.net/MiscDoctrine/DispCov.htm

AMR
 
musterion

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heir said:
Those such as yourself are no less thieves than others. You steal that which is written TO Israel and apply it TO yourself.
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Exactly -- so along comes disp'ism, which they view as a thief trying to steal from them what they, in ignorance, have already stolen from Israel.

Just before I saw the distinctiveness of Paul's ministry, I remember being at John Ankerberg's old board and watching arguments between MADs and others. One guy, who I think claimed to be an old pentecostal preacher, said "You're trying to take my baptism from me!"

The topic there was water baptism, so that comment shocked me. I knew at the time that Catholics believed water baptism saves but never examined it further, so never realized the salvational weight so many evangelicals and protestants put on a deactivated priestly washing ritual right out of Moses (I was also an indie-fundie Baptist then too, which helped blind me). But his comment started tuning me into what the MADs were trying to say.

Now I see it for what it is -- he'd put some degree of saving faith in a water ritual at the hands of men, which ALL of them do but NONE of them (except Church of Christ and a few others) will admit to doing. Same things with healings, tongues, the pastor priesthood, etc etc etc. All because they steal Israel's mail because they think they literally are Israel, forever.
 
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