ECT Ever wonder why dispensationalism has become increasingly despised?
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heir
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Wick Stick
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CS,
Pierre Jurieu believed that he was currently living in the tribulation, and that it would end in 1689 with the overthrow of the anti-christ (who he equated with the Pope).
Pierre Jurieu wasn't pre-trib. He was post-trib.
Jarrod
Pierre Jurieu believed that he was currently living in the tribulation, and that it would end in 1689 with the overthrow of the anti-christ (who he equated with the Pope).
Pierre Jurieu wasn't pre-trib. He was post-trib.
Jarrod
True. And most (not all) pre-Darby, sources external to Scripture, that are cited by most Acts 2 Dispies (not by all and not by most Acts 9 Dispies) in support of a Pre-Trib Rapture are not actually a support of it.
What some of those sources external to the Scripture often do support is their writer's beliefs that the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 and John's Apocalypse, together with Daniel's 70th week, etc., were yet future from the time of said writer's writings.
Few pre-Darby writings support a Pre-Trib Rapture.
One pre-Darby writing in particular does conclude a Pre-Trib Rapture.
Other pre-Darby writings conclude a Rapture of one sort or another; but not Pre-Trib.
One interesting document in all this - for its lesson - is Psuedo-Ephraem, which was supposedly written somewhere between the 4th and 7th Century.
Interesting to me for its lesson because I find the study of what students of Scripture had believed a fascinating study. For I do not rely on them for what I am to Believe - I have the promised FULL instruction of Isaiah 8:20 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17, for that.
Anyway, based on an earlier version of the errorneous notion that the Body of Christ is "spiritual Israel" Psuedo Ephraim builds on that to conclude a sort of a smorgasbord of Reformed and Acts 2 misunderstanding.
The document asserts the Body - as spiritual Israel - will see the rise of anti-Christ and so on, but only from the safety of their being raptured away from the coming confusion to the safety of the dessert, where the Lord will provide their sustenance.
Its an interesting confusion of Reformed and Acts 2 errors that Acts 2 leaders turn into a Pre-Trib Rapture assertion.
At the same time, said writing makes obvious that Preterism was not the view of all.
I have left most sources out intentionally.
One, I do not believe they should be sourced as a source for one's beliefs - Scripture alone should be one's sole authority.
Two, I do not believe they should be sourced towards the proving or disproving of what one holds to or not - again, Scripture alone should be one's sole source.
Three, let every man engage in his own labor as to these documents - the trip along the way even to tracking them down, bringing each to encounters along the way only each man can come to on his own.
Four, one thing that stands out as I have observed the goings on of mind within said writings is that the history of such things must be approached much like one should approach, say, Matthew and Acts - both of which, being that they are books describing a thing in transition, they should not be relied on for establishing doctrine from them - things are in transition in them.
Like wise with all these writings external to Scripture - the more astute individual cannot but note that a theology of the Scripture is ever in transition within all those external writings.
Thus, the disagreement between men.
A transition which continues to this very minute for the simple fact related by that odd, unexpected but by God, one Apostle too many to Israel's already set apart Twelve - that Apostle of the Gentiles: Paul.
Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Until the eye of faith one day meets the eye the Lord Himself - theology will ever be in transition.
Thus the great Apostle's relating of his heart felt prayer in the following...
Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
THAT is a never ending path of discovery of what has ever been there in the Scripture, all along; ever since its revelation reached that fulness described in Col. 1:25-26.
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Wick Stick
Well-known member
Like this?
As a theory, it makes more sense than some things I've seen.
Like this?
As a theory, it makes more sense than some things I've seen.
Actually, I had this in mind :chuckle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUzKkmGgsB4&app=desktop
But, kidding aside, it appears Pseudo Ephraem confused the following concerning Israel during during JACOB'S Trouble, as being about the mythological "spiritual Israel."
Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
"As we see," Craigie the anti semite, Russell/Hanegraaf/Josephus follower has suffered another fatal death knell, as he "scurried away, as a cockroach does when the light is shown on him," and as he did in the Hilston "debate," and is scrambling to his stack of Stuart, Hannegraaf, King, Sproul, Josephus, DeMars, Gentry............."fallable men" articles/tapes/books, thinking, "I know these meanie dispies are in denial, I will further embarrass them, from plagiarizing/copy'npasting from all these infallible sources, you see, uh, urr...................The whole world cannot answer me, Craigie, and is in denial."
TeT is truly a mess and a half.
ClimateSanity
New member
That is besides what Tet was asking for. He was asking for a rapture separate from the second coming. He didn't add any other stipulation. I gave it to him. You want to move the goal post now?
Don't you know, pops, that we/the whole universe is in denial, and that no one, in the history of civilization, can/will answer him?
Yep.
Archaeologists say nothing in the Bible actually happened.
No one taught Darby's rapture before Darby invented it in 1830.
Darby's rapture is based on a "vision" from a teenage girl, who claimed in her vision that Jesus returned twice.
Nowhere before Darby does anyone teach of Jesus coming back twice, or a rapture + a Second Coming.
Dispensationalism is built upon the lie of a pre-trib rapture followed by a Second Coming of Jesus.
Darby's rapture is based on a "vision" from a teenage girl, who claimed in her vision that Jesus returned twice.
Nowhere before Darby does anyone teach of Jesus coming back twice, or a rapture + a Second Coming.
Dispensationalism is built upon the lie of a pre-trib rapture followed by a Second Coming of Jesus.
I keep TeT on ignore, where I can keep an eye on him Sonny.
There is absolutely no evidence that the Wailing Wall existed in 70AD.
You and the Christ rejecting Jews have been duped.
1.Quite irrelevant, spam artist, as to whether 1 person taught it, no one taught it, hundreds taught it, and when, sweetie. All that matters, is if the bible teaches it, little arms boy. Tell us the relevance as I asked you, as others asked you, including Hilston, sweetie.
2. No one taught that Jesus Christ is not a man today, that an "un physical" Saviour allegedly returned in AD 70, and was allegedly seen by this mystical "everyone," that you refuse to identify, that signs are invisible, and that the Roman army was the second coming, until J. Stuart Russell invented it, in the 1800's. And you cannot/will not identify this "bunch of men" that were infallible, according to you, that taught it before Russell.
3. Yes they did-you are in denial.
4.No one "taught" what you "teach," on TOL, before you did.
Name them.
You made that up, and plagiarized that. I warned you, punk-plagiarism is against TOL rules.
Yes it does-you are in denial.
1. It's not as lie. The bible teaches it. You are in denial.
2.AD 70-ism/Preterism is built on the same eschatology, mysticism as the Catholic Church, and the lie that Jesus Christ is not a man today, that an "un physical" Saviour allegedly returned in AD 70, and was allegedly seen by this mystical "everyone," that you refuse to identify, that signs are invisible, and that the Roman army was the second coming.
There are 30 days of the vials of wrath between the return of Christ from Heaven to raise the saints, and the coming down of Christ and His saints from the clouds at Armageddon.
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