glorydaz
Well-known member
There we see the mishmash of verses....none of Paul's say what you claim.
Eternal Security
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
There we see the mishmash of verses....none of Paul's say what you claim.
2 Timothy 2:15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
genuineoriginal
New member
That is what I strive to do, which is why I don't just accept any doctrine of man, such as the nonsense that is Once Saved Always Saved.
genuineoriginal
New member
Once Saved Always Saved cannot be found in Paul's gospel.
And if you believe Paul is teaching a different gospel, then you shouldn't believe Paul's gospel.
glorydaz
Well-known member
If you think Paul is teaching the same Gospel as the Apostles preached, then you're stuck on the wrong side of the cross.
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
nikolai_42
Well-known member
While the answer to salvation is ultimately one of security (as being in God's hands), it seems as though there is a warning against using security as a means of confidence :
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Romans 11:18-22
One may well say that those who are truly saved will continue in His goodness. That very thing should drive us away from using any sort of eternal security (whatever it be called) as a means to comfort ourselves. Rather, it should be a means of vetting ourselves of ANY confidence in self. To be at ease because of eternal security is to misuse the truth. One's security in Christ should have only one effect - to drive us to the Savior in humility and fear. Humility for the greatness of our salvation which we could never deserve and fear because of the abiding influence of the flesh and the tendency to become careless and "highminded".
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
I Cor 9:25-27
Paul's use of sailing metaphor extends to at least one more pertinent verse :
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
I Tim 1:18-20
This is not speaking of something that never was, but of something that was, and that had integrity. That integrity was ruined (in the case of Hymenaeus and Alexander) and so one cannot say that they didn't have faith - but that what they had was devastated to the point of ruin (or at least impairment against use). It doesn't say that this impairment was to their utter loss, but that they may learn not to blaspheme (in the sense of I Cor 5:5 where Paul delivers someone to Satan for the destruction of the flesh to accomodate the salvation of his soul). If we aren't saved by works, it certainly seems evident that our works can bring us severe anguish. Whether those in 2 Peter 2:29-21 ever knew the Lord in reality is a question for s different thread - but the fact that it would have been better for them never to have known the Truth should be warning enough that we can too easily presume upon God's mercy. Any diminution of the gravity of abiding sin in a confessing believer (whether he is or not) is a serious matter. Both for that individual himself and for those around him.
To tie this back in with the matter of the believer's security in Christ and not being snatched from Christ's hand, it seems to me that it has become severed from the importance of continuing on in faith. Another poster has cited Rev 3:5 as evidence that a believer can lose his salvation. While I believe this goes to the need for salvation being based on something beyond man's decision (and so don't see Jesus essentially contradicting Himself - which I think this other poster requires for his position), it should be noted that Jesus is speaking to the Church in Rev 2 and 3 - and they are being judged by the Lord (often very seriously) for their works. The common thread (in all the churches) is one of repentance. Our works do NOT save us, but they are of great importance to the believer. If a man is truly saved, he will show evidence of those works God has already ordained for him to walk in.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Titus 2:11-15
genuineoriginal
New member
You think the gospel that the Apostles preached after the crucifixion is on the wrong side of the cross?
:rotfl:
No, she said that you are stuck on the wrong side.
genuineoriginal
New member
A shadow of this is found in this verse:
Acts 27:31 31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved. |
If you do not abide in the faith, you cannot be saved.
2 John 1:9 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. |
LOL...why be diligent when it’s already guaranteed a done deal...diligent until when? Oh yeah UNTIL We present ourselves approved to Yah...and when is that?
Accurately handling the word of truth for how long...ONCE?
It’s NOT LORD! LORD! But those that KEEP/DO His Fathers will not just believe or do once but for the rest of their life...
run the race...fight the good fight...to persevere...to overcome...He knows our works and directly instructed 6 of 7 churches to repent and turn back to their previous ways their first love...REPENT...means they had FALLEN and if they did not well were lost...
Peter warns don’t be a dog and return to your vomit...or it would have been better NOT to have heard the holy commandment...then return back...
Why pray for longsuffering and patience if its a one time deal...?
Here are they that KEEP...not kept once...or believed that one time...here are they that KEEP...and the faith of Yahushua...not believed ONCE in Him...but had the faith OF...kept the faith OF...overcame, worked out, established, persevered, endured...ya see the pattern?
But of course you have RAPTURED yourself from the works His people WANT to do...RAPTURED yourselves from following HIM HIS WAY HIS LIFE’S WALK...picking up the cross and to finally die uncompromised...AS HE DID...
IMITATE HIM...but well no “we are MAD” you claim “and are RAPTURED from establishing the Law and representing HIM HIS WAY...that was not dispensed to us...”
too MAD to do as He asked WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH to do...
Given salvation and grace once you RAPTURE yourselves out of any further wish or desire to IMITATE or FOLLOW Him...to do His will on earth as it is in heaven...”Naaaw...I’m good...go on without me...I am outta here...” LOL
binyamin7
Active member
These gluttonous sin lovers hate the idea of holiness being a requirement!
genuineoriginal
New member
The name calling is not necessary.
Never mind the whole NEW COVENANT was written and demonstrated and taught before the cross signed and sealed it...
Ask feuding families how much the last will and testament can be changed after the testator is dead...LOL
binyamin7
Active member
Many on here do it don't act all brand new.
May we pray we hear “well done good and faithful servant” as it’s NOT “well received the grace the repentance...believing squatter”
Besides the classic “brood of vipers” or “synagogue of Satan” or “den of thieves” is better...LOL
Oh and “shout louder your god sleeps or is on a journey”...that is funny good stuff there that is
As only a passover lamb the cross did not resolve the issue of sin it remains we are only covered from the wrath...sin remains...
It is at the day of atONEment that we receive our MERCY and reward for being faithful and obedient...JUDGEMENT DAY SAVES HIS...
That is when we are saved...and finally...until then we are only “covered”...may our name remain...
HalleluYah
I believe that you mean
Can you lose your salvation?
No, you can not. But you can feel that you have lost your salvation whether you are saved to begin with.