End of Roe Vs Wade?

JudgeRightly

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[proposal that] men who impregnate a woman are automatically on the hook for child support upon conception, not waiting until after birth.

The idea has promise. It would reduce promiscuity.

It might for the lower class, and even less so for the lower-middle class, but for the upper-middle and upper classes, all they have to do is throw money at the problem and they get to have sex with as many women as they want and can afford.

Which doesn't solve the problem.

No, the only solution is to force those who are caught having sex outside of marriage to marry, and to not allow them to divorce. This would force the man to provide for his wife and their child, and deter him from ruining any other woman's life by impregnating and then abandoning her.
 

Arthur Brain

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The one that is conceived as a result of having sex.



Correct, because it teaches people that there are consequences to one's actions, while simultaneously providing a solid foundation for any children that are born as a result of their inability to control their lusts.



Think of it this way: The two people liked each other enough to have sex. That's more than enough reason to get married. The "no divorce" part is the punishment. They made their bed, now they must lie in it.

Such a punishment teaches society to be more responsible.



But they shouldn't.



Yes, I do, because you don't seem to quite fully grasp the breadth of the problem with what you advocate.

A child, a living, breathing human being, is the result of having sex, and not punishing those who are caught having sex outside of marriage teaches society that, contrary to reality, there's no need for commitment, and that it's ok to give in to one's lusts, because there are no consequences to doing so.

Again: IDEAS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

The consequences of the idea that one can give into lust and not face any is that children are born to single mothers, assuming they make it to birth before being killed by their mothers due to the "inconvenience" of being pregnant, and the fathers abandon the women in search of more sexual partners. It's a BRUTAL cycle that never considers the wellbeing of the child that is conceived as a result of their infidelity.



Contraceptives aren't a 100% guarantee that a woman won't get pregnant.



Because there's nothing inherently wrong about a husband and wife using contraceptives because they're not ready to have children yet.

On the other hand, however, it IS wrong for an unmarried man and woman to have sex. Period.



Correct.

Thus, the parents must face the consequences of their actions.

If their child dies as a result of their neglect, then the parents should be punished by the government. Any parent(s) who neglect their child to the point where the child dies should be executed, because it's murder through negligence. This would teach parents that they need to take care of their children, else face the consequences.



By whom?

The government is not responsible for children, nor does it have the right to take children away from their parents, regardless of their treatment of them.



I do, which is why I want single mothers to find a husband who can provide for her and her child so that she can care for her child, instead of spending time away from her child at work while her child goes off to some day care.



If I hated children, I would be on board with that. But I don't.



False.



Clearly not.



Then why go outside of that paradigm if not to rebel against God?



Don't take my word for it, Arthur.


A two-parent home is FAR BETTER than a single parent home.

Marriage is GOOD FOR CHILDREN.

You want to talk about caring for the child, marriage of the mother and father is the best way to go.



False.



Nothing of what I have said comes from either of those countries.



False.

What I advocate is that parents be responsible and care for their children, enforced by the government, not taken over by it.



Not really.



Again, you don't have to take my word for it, Arthur.




The fact that the mother and father are unwilling to reconcile does not mean therefore that single parent homes are better than two-parent homes.



Sadly, yes. I can say that their living conditions are far worse than if they were to find a spouse to marry.



Why?

Why can't the parents face the consequences of their actions? Why does the government have to prevent those consequences?



Friends of the family, no?

Why do you automatically assume the government has to be the one to step in?



What I want has nothing to do with it.

Women who behave promiscuously are sluts.

Women who do the same for money are whores.

That's what they are!



Equal under the law, yes.

Not equal in capabilities.



Arthur, God knows your thoughts. He doesn't approve. You should repent.
Okay, well, you've parsed this out to shreds for some reason so I'm gonna address parts in short paragraphs and in the main surrounding children's rights as that's the meat of this AFAIC.

You want to force people to live by what you believe to be government imposed laws that comport to your beliefs. That's akin to religious tyranny. This is the West where personal freedom and liberty is valued. If you think you can "force" people into your particular brand of "morality" then you are woefully misguided. Force does not change other people's values or beliefs that differ to yours.

Just because people are attracted enough to have sex doesn't equate to their being compatible for a long term relationship. Other people's sex lives are nobody else's business and forcing, say, a teenage couple to marry is an abrogation of their human rights. Your argument is effectively around the lines of 'might makes right'. It doesn't. It's completely up to men and women whether they get married and have sex or don't. Marriage doesn't magically make a stable family union in itself by any stretch.

Why should the child face the repercussions of irresponsible, neglectful and abusive parents and die as a result when there was help available that could have prevented that? Is that child just collateral damage? You don't pity the child caught up in unhealthy environments at all JR, else you would either step in yourself if you could or stand aside and let those who could help do their job and give that child what they need. Failure to allow authorities to take a child in danger into care and allowing that child to die as a result makes you just as culpable for that child's death as it could have been avoided. There are already laws that make neglectful and abusive parenting serious crimes and such wouldn't magically disappear with your proposals. The government does indeed have a responsibility in regards to the welfare of children and rightly so regardless of your 'pie in the sky' thinking. You need a reality check frankly.

Nobody's arguing that marriage is a bad thing here, rather pointing out that healthy environments don't necessarily have that paradigm. For all the single parents you could describe as not doing their job I could name plenty that are. Could name plenty of children brought up in healthy marriages too, healthy non married couples also along with unhealthy ones.

Well aware that none of what you've said has come from other countries but the underpinning religious extremism is more than evident.

You can't force people to be caring and responsible JR. One of these days you might realise this. Some people are simply unfit to be parents and children need to be removed from them before worse case scenarios can happen. If there's a responsible relative willing to do so then great, if not then protection services need to step in. A child has the rights to food, water, shelter, warmth, education, period.

Carry on with those derogatory slurs towards women who aren't chaste as you will. They're human beings AFAIC.

Women are equal to you. They're at least equal to you in terms of capabilities also.

You should reflect on your pride and arrogance where it comes to your thinking you are a spokesperson for God. You aren't.
 

Arthur Brain

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Also, whoremonger...



That double standard was implemented by God Himself.

There's a reason for it.

God made men to have a strong sex drive.
He made women to have a weaker sex drive, but to be more emotionally driven.

Man and woman complement each other, and in a proper marriage, the man's sex drive ensures sex happens, (probably not as much as he would like, but more often than he would otherwise, and in marriage, it's a healthy amount), while the woman's emotional drive ensures the connection between them lasts, so that their children have a stable foundation on which to grow.
If you think that God implemented a double standard then that bizarre claim alone should have given you pause for thought. Why on earth would God do that?!

Where in the name of sanity do you get the notion that men are designed to have a stronger sex drive than women? Seriously, where? This is stuff that could have come off the back of a crisp packet JR and in no way reflects reality. Women and men do not have differing degrees of sex drive or emotion. This sort of gender stereotyping has been kicked into touch for years now. Sure, in years past women have often been portrayed as the nurturing while men are the macho breadwinners etc but we don't live in 1958 anymore...
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
You keep with this idiot statement.

You want rules without the rule maker.
He isn't and neither are you. You can both think that you have the authority to speak on behalf of God and what he approves if you like but you don't and it certainly doesn't deserve any respect.

Cute soundbite with your latter.
 

Right Divider

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annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Also, whoremonger...

No, that term doesn't describe a guy who has sex out of marriage.

That double standard was implemented by God Himself.

There's a reason for it.

God made men to have a strong sex drive.
He made women to have a weaker sex drive, but to be more emotionally driven.

Man and woman complement each other, and in a proper marriage, the man's sex drive ensures sex happens, (probably not as much as he would like, but more often than he would otherwise, and in marriage, it's a healthy amount), while the woman's emotional drive ensures the connection between them lasts, so that their children have a stable foundation on which to grow.

The double standard is society's, not God's. Doesn't matter if there are different sex drives.
 

JudgeRightly

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Arthur Brain

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No, that term doesn't describe a guy who has sex out of marriage.



The double standard is society's, not God's. Doesn't matter if there are different sex drives.
There's differences in sex drive from person to person but those that claim males have higher ones than women clearly don't know many...

The double standard is absolutely societal.
 

Right Divider

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Most people have a functioning moral compass/conscience and a sense of empathy.
How do you know this? What standard are you basing this upon?
Do you need a manual to tell you that it's wrong to be cruel to animals or is it inbuilt?
Again, from where to you get your standards? If it's "inbuilt", why do so many people violate it?

You constantly make vacuous claims with no support.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
How do you know this? What standard are you basing this upon?

Again, from where to you get your standards? If it's "inbuilt", why do so many people violate it?

You constantly make vacuous claims with no support.
That which I'm given. I detest pointless suffering and cruelty, it's inbuilt. It's not of my own doing. That should answer all your queries and your latter was ironic as it was a soundbite in want of support itself.
 

Right Divider

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That which I'm given.
What in the world does that mean? Please give details that others can use to prove your claims true or false.
I detest pointless suffering and cruelty, it's inbuilt.
Good for you. Is there nothing in God's Word that confirms this concept? Do we just have to take your word for it?
It's not of my own doing. That should answer all your queries and your latter was ironic as it was a soundbite in want of support itself.
You continue to speak in vague terms and avoid the actual details provided in God's Word.

Why are you so opposed to God's Word? Why does it give you such a hard time?
 
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