Elect According to Foreknowledge
- Thread starter bwood
- Start date
Well for starters, just reading the verse immediately prior to verse 2, the issue is resolved.
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, - 1 Peter 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter1:1&version=NKJV
"We" are not elect. The "pilgrims of the dispersion," AKA the Diaspora, are. Who is the Diaspora? Jews and Proselytes. NOT members of the Body of Christ.
Also, "elect" just means "chosen to accomplish a task." It has literally nothing to do with salvation.
And foreknowledge just means knowing in advance.
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I was able to post before... hence my post before...
I cannot "like" the posts in this thread.
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Looks good now. Thanks again Sherman!
There really is no way to make "Pilgrims of the dispersion" mean only Jews; it refers to the Church which began as a mixture of Jews and Gentiles in Israel and expanded from there. This in stark contrast to those addressed at the beginning of James, "the twelve tribes," clearly referring to Jews. What's more, "elect" describes the church throughout the NT, most importantly at the end of this very letter where he groups the elect from Babylon (a reference to Rome no doubt, so Christians from all over) together with them; one "elect."
"Elect" in my Greek dictionary means "select; by implication, favorite: chosen" There's no implication for a lesser meaning as your "chosen to accomplish a task."
"Foreknowledge just means knowing in advance." Yes, that's the issue, chosen in advance. God chose them before he knew them. That could possibly mean that God is just referring to the entire group of elect, that he had plans for them, but if that's the meaning, why not just say that? "Elect according to foreknowledge" sure seems to me, and I would think to any reader not versed in open theology, to imply individual relational knowledge and harken back to JER 1:5.
Most of the open theology points I read make a lot of sense; these passages seem insurmountable to me.
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You think that Peter and James are writing to "two different dispersed groups"?
The "elect" is not a single solitary group and it does not simply mean "saved" or "believers". "Elect" simply means "chosen for a purpose" and that purpose is not required to be identical each time that "elect" is used.
Elect means chosen for a purpose.
That verse refers to the Lord Jesus Christ. Do you think that He needed salvation from sin?
beloved57
Well-known member
Also Peter is writing to Spiritual People, whom had been born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
And it is about Salvation, heaven. And you are right it is about the Church, the Body of Christ, born again through His resurrection, because Hes their Head.
beloved57
Well-known member
VI. When foreknowledge is ascribed to God, the word imports (1) that general prescience whereby He knew from all eternity both what He Himself would do, and what His creatures, in consequence of His efficacious and permissive decree, should do likewise. The Divine foreknowledge, considered in this view, is absolutely universal; it extends to all beings that did, do or ever shall exist, and to all actions that ever have been, that are or shall be done, whether good or evil, natural, civil or moral. (2) The word often denotes that special prescience which has for its objects His own elect, and them alone, whom He is in a peculiar sense said to know and foreknow (Psalm 1.6; John 10.27; 2 Tim. 2.19; Rom. 8.29; 1 Peter 1.2), and this knowledge is connected with, or rather the same with love, favour and approbation.
www.covenanter.org
Absolute Predestination. — Reformed Presbyterian Church (Covenanted) - "Steelite" Covenanters
1562-Jerome Zanchius (1516-1590).-A classic statement of the doctrine of predestination from an early Reformer who presents a supralapsarian point of view on the subject.
www.covenanter.org
Nanja
Well-known member
VI. When foreknowledge is ascribed to God, the word imports (1) that general prescience whereby He knew from all eternity both what He Himself would do, and what His creatures, in consequence of His efficacious and permissive decree, should do likewise. The Divine foreknowledge, considered in this view, is absolutely universal; it extends to all beings that did, do or ever shall exist, and to all actions that ever have been, that are or shall be done, whether good or evil, natural, civil or moral. (2) The word often denotes that special prescience which has for its objects His own elect, and them alone, whom He is in a peculiar sense said to know and foreknow (Psalm 1.6; John 10.27; 2 Tim. 2.19; Rom. 8.29; 1 Peter 1.2), and this knowledge is connected with, or rather the same with love, favour and approbation.
Absolute Predestination. — Reformed Presbyterian Church (Covenanted) - "Steelite" Covenanters
1562-Jerome Zanchius (1516-1590).-A classic statement of the doctrine of predestination from an early Reformer who presents a supralapsarian point of view on the subject.
Amen Brother, I'm in agreement with this writer's description of God's Sovereignty and Foreknowledge, how He deliberately determined / predestinated those He hated Rom. 9:22 to everlasting contempt and shame Dan. 12:2, while others He Loved Rom. 9:23 and determined / predestinated them to Eternal Glory 2 Tim. 2:10, favour and approbation !
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Derf
Well-known member
Was Paul not writing to the body of Christ here: "[Col 3:12 KJV] Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering"?
And was Peter not writing to those that didn't used to be a people?
[1Pe 2:10 KJV] Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
If they were Jews, then they were "a people" in time past.
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Peter is one of the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, Paul is the one apostle for the one body.
Until you can understand the difference between the two, you will continue to try to conflate them.
Derf
Well-known member
Thanks for your rote response. But Paul, who you are saying was writing to the body of Christ, was calling the Colossians “elect”, while @JudgeRightly says “we are not elect”. Are you saying @JudgeRightly is not part of the body of Christ?
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Derf
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Then you disagree with @JudgeRightly that we are not elect, at least in some way?
To clarify, it was poor wording on my part.
Allow me to reword it:
"We" are not the elect.
This should have been obvious, considering I was pointing out that Israel is called "the Elect Lady," among other things.
The problem you face, Derf, is that we in the body of Christ are not "CHOSEN" for salvation, but called to preach the gospel of Christ.
Israel, on the other hand, WAS a chosen nation, chosen to be God's ministers to the Gentiles.