Drug Dealing and the Bible

[CabinetMaker]

Since I don't buy into the modern medical model, with its 'politically correct' policy and ideology of not acknowledging culpability and sin in disease and illness, or informing the patient of the cause of their diseases, I can't really respond in a way you will accept.

I would of course, hold those who really know what is going on responsible, but since you don't believe they exist, we can't communicate intelligently on the topic.

Don't worry: in your ideological world, its nobody's fault, and nobody should be prosecuted.

peace
Nazaroo

Who in the world would really know what is going on?

 

[Gerald]

Who in the world would really know what is going on?

Somebody like Nazaroo, most likely. How convenient is that?

One wonders if he believes that evil spirits play some part in causing disease...

 

[Nazaroo]

Posted by CabinetMaker Who in the world would really know what is going on?


Somebody like Nazaroo, most likely. How convenient is that?

Its not rocket science to read a newspaper.

Big corporations can't be trusted.
Just ask yourself if its really difficult to figure out what happened for instance,
with the Gulf Oil Disaster and BP (British Petrolium).

Did they follow their own industry safety standards? No.
Did they try to cover up the amount of oil pouring into the Gulf? Yes.
Have they stopped the disaster? No.

Do I need magic powers of perception or a conspiracy theory? No.

Can I read a newspaper? Yes.

What you can know is directly proportional to the amount of effort you make finding out.

QED

Nazaroo

 

[Gerald]

Its not rocket science to read a newspaper.

Big corporations can't be trusted.

That's the strangest spelling of "human beings" I've ever seen?

Just ask yourself if its really difficult to figure out what happened for instance,
with the Gulf Oil Disaster and BP (British Petrolium).

Did they follow their own industry safety standards? No.
Did they try to cover up the amount of oil pouring into the Gulf? Yes.
Have they stopped the disaster? No.

Do I need magic powers of perception or a conspiracy theory? No.

Can I read a newspaper? Yes.

All of which in no way addresses the fact that you reject the modern medical paradigm (would Germ Theory be included in that?).

What you can know is directly proportional to the amount of effort you make finding out.

But you fail to take the next logical step, which is to ask yourself "How can I profit by what I've found out?"

 

[Nazaroo]

"How can I profit ...?"

This may be the "next logical step" for a selfish atheist, but if only you had a clue, you'd know its so far away from Christian ideology that it is essentially orthogonal to it:

"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it." (Mark 8:35)
​

To attempt to communicate to someone without even caring to comprehend their worldview and belief system is a waste of your own time. Why do you bother to post?

peace
Nazaroo

 

[CabinetMaker]

Your questions are only half formed and intended to spin things to your own ends. They are dishonest.

Its not rocket science to read a newspaper.

Big corporations can't be trusted.
Just ask yourself if its really difficult to figure out what happened for instance,
with the Gulf Oil Disaster and BP (British Petrolium).

Did they follow their own industry safety standards? No. This is true enough
Did they try to cover up the amount of oil pouring into the Gulf? Yes. Did they? I'm not convinced they knew because flow meters are located at the surface so they have no way to measure the flow. Even the best scientists cannot accurately determine the exact flow. The fact that somebody does not know the exact number does not automatically make them a liar.
Have they stopped the disaster? No. Have they tried? Repeatedly. Have they been successful? Not yet. Why? This is the first deep water oil spill in history. It has a steep learning curve.

Do I need magic powers of perception or a conspiracy theory? No. No, but it rather obvious that you think everything is a conspiracy.

Can I read a newspaper? Yes. Comprehension is questionable.

What you can know is directly proportional to the amount of effort you make finding out. You need to put out more effort and learn about how drilling is done before you are qualified to judge BP's efforts.

QED

Nazaroo

How do the big medical corporations ruin our DNA? Please, be VERY specific, not just open ended allegations. Please show us how they accomplish it and show is that their intentions are nefarious.

 

[Gerald]

To attempt to communicate to someone without even caring to comprehend their worldview and belief system is a waste of your own time. Why do you bother to post?

I comprehend your belief system and worldview quite well, thanks; I just happen to strongly doubt its validity.

That said, just because I doubt the validity of a person's views doesn't mean I can't meaningfully communicate with that person: the questions I ask call for simple answers, simple answers that you (for example) seem most hesitant to give. Instead, you go off on a tangential rant.

As for why I bother to post, it is because I find this board and its denizens immensely entertaining! :thumb:

 

[Nazaroo]

the questions I ask call for simple answers, simple answers that you (for example) seem most hesitant to give.

simple answers which only make sense according to your worldview, not mine. Simple answers that suggest a simpleton, who only bothers to post because he finds...

this board ...immensely entertaining!

Thanks for making explicit your lack of any moral purpose.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Your questions are only half formed and intended to spin things to your own ends. They are dishonest.

Your marginal notes in red don't demonstrate any dishonesty on my part. They are just an ad hominem attack on my personal integrity. *yawn*

"That all you got?" - Mohammed Ali
​

How do the big medical corporations ruin our DNA? Please, be VERY specific, not just open ended allegations. Please show us how they accomplish it and show is that their intentions are nefarious.

Example 1: By re-releasing into the public domain Thalidomide in third-world countries where they can't be policed. Thalidomide is banned in all Western countries.

http://www.ibis-birthdefects.org/start/tsoutha.html

"Mainly used for the treatment of leprosy, Thalidomide has been a ongoing teratogen in South America. The re-marketing of Thalidomide for the treatment of many other disorders is likely to make control of its intake during early pregnancy quite difficult. According to the members of ECLAMC (a consortium of birth defects surveillance systems in South America), there were only 34 Thalidomide Embryopathies detected by members of ECLAMC since 1965 (E. E. Castilla et al., Teratology 54: 273, 1996). The ECLAMC experts stress that the current systems will have difficulty to detect potential epidemics of birth defects attributable to Thalidomide.

There are thousands of other examples.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[alwight]

"How can I profit ...?"

This may be the "next logical step" for a selfish atheist, but if only you had a clue, you'd know its so far away from Christian ideology that it is essentially orthogonal to it:

This is disingenuous on at least two counts imo.

Firstly the context was actually that if you learn from experience you can quite honourably profit by it. A quote mine iow. I'm no fan of BP btw but even they and other oil companies may learn and yes ultimately profit (not "get profits") from this failure, much learning results from failure in engineering as history shows.

Secondly both theists and atheists worth their salt will profit from life's experience without being in anyway selfish.

So you rather seem to be on your own here.

 

[Gerald]

Nazarite = bitter, angry prat!

Nazarite = bitter, angry prat!

simple answers which only make sense according to your worldview, not mine. Simple answers that suggest a simpleton, who only bothers to post because he finds...
Thanks for making explicit your lack of any moral purpose.

Well, aren't we just full of ourselves?

This is why I find you in particular to be so entertaining, Naz: you're always brimming over with Righteous Indignation™ about something, and you always take everything Oh-So-Seriously™.

You're every bit as grim, pinched and constipated as your perpetually scowly-faced avatar.

It must be a profound pain to be you, trapped as you are in a world filled with heathens and simpletons, folks who Just Don't Get It.

 

[Paulos]

Your marginal notes in red don't demonstrate any dishonesty on my part. They are just an ad hominem attack on my personal integrity.

I don't mean to reply for CM, but I just wanted to point out that you apparently don't know the meaning of the term "ad hominem attack". Ad hominem attacks are designed to ignore the substance of an opponent's argument and instead attack the opponent. CM made some substantive points to you that you chose to ignore in your reply. The fact that you chose to reduce his substantive points down to nothing more than "an ad hominem attack on [your] personal integrity" means that you are the one who is engaging in an ad hominem attack.

Example 1: [/B]By re-releasing into the public domain Thalidomide in third-world countries where they can't be policed. Thalidomide is banned in all Western countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Revived_interest

 

[Nazaroo]

I don't mean to reply for CM, but I just wanted to

You don't mean to but you did anyway. Self-control is as rare as platinum for you I suppose.

Thanks for the link to wikipedia. I can't vouch for the accuracy of their coles' notes, but I'm sure its more up to date than my statement.

It appears that the drug companies have the power to force continued use of the drug even in Western countries now, since it rakes in over 100 million dollars annually in Brazil etc.

Some of the more excellent points of your link are as follows;

"...clinical trials for AIDS proved disappointing."

Nonetheless the drug companies continue to market and push the drug for AIDS treatment.

More recently the World Health Organisation (WHO) have stated that:

"The WHO does not recommend the use of thalidomide in leprosy as experience has shown that it is virtually impossible to develop and implement a fool-proof surveillance mechanism to combat misuse of the drug. The drug clofazimine is now a component of the multidrug therapy (MDT), introduced by WHO in 1981 as the standard treatment for leprosy and now supplied free of charge to all patients worldwide."[26]
​

Clearly the World Health Org. doesn't buy the drug-company BS about Thalidomide.

Note that even in treatment of Leprosy, the main justification (ease of pain) can be accomplished with hundreds of other safe drugs, eliminating the need to manufacture and distribute this drug for Leprosy sufferers.

The drug companies got approval in the USA because of the real reason that the drug is extremely dangerous:

In 1994, Dr. Robert D'Amato at Harvard Medical School discovered that thalidomide was a potent inhibitor of new blood vessel growth

This is also why it deforms and kills babies.

news from Brazil is also disconcerting:

A study published in 1994 found 61 people born after 1965 whose limb defects and exposure history were compatible with thalidomide embryopathy.

In 63.6% of these cases, thalidomide had been prescribed without the physician informing the patient about the drug's teratogenicity.

but..." cases of thalidomide embryopathy are thought to have occurred until today" ...

This is precisely what eugenists, and evolutionists want: they imagine they have the right to experiment with genetic manipulation by any means, in order to destroy ethnic undesirables, and create "supermen".

Anyone who doesn't know the sorry record of the super-rich, the 500 controlling families of Europe who run the international economy, and their love-affair with Malthus, Darwin, and other racist nuts just hasn't been reading the newspaper.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[CabinetMaker]

Your marginal notes in red don't demonstrate any dishonesty on my part. They are just an ad hominem attack on my personal integrity. *yawn*

"That all you got?" - Mohammed Ali​

​

Your failure to address my comments and right them off as ad hominem seems to indicate that you are not able to address them. Instead of ignoring them, address them. Show us what you got!

Example 1: By re-releasing into the public domain Thalidomide in third-world countries where they can't be policed. Thalidomide is banned in all Western countries.

http://www.ibis-birthdefects.org/start/tsoutha.html

There are thousands of other examples.

peace
Nazaroo

Okay, let us for the moment assume your hypothesis as valid. Your next step here will be to demonstrate for us the motives of the company. Profit over safety? Control of the masses through drug dependency? Population reduction? What are their motives and can you provide documentation for those motives.

 

[Nazaroo]

Firstly the context was actually that if you learn from experience you can quite honourably profit by it.

The cluelessness of the atheist position is mind-boggling.

Equating gaining knowledge or technical ability or cunning with "honour" simply distorts the English language and shows utter incomprehension of what "honour" entails.

It is not your fault however, given that they are handing out knighthoods now to Mick Jagger and Elton John.

Secondly both theists and atheists worth their salt will profit from life's experience without being in anyway selfish.

So you rather seem to be on your own here.

" theists and atheists worth their salt"...and who are those? Can you estimate what percentage of the general population of atheists will be "worth their salt"?

By the way, just what MMORPG are you immersed in? I am guessing you are a shut-in, given your naivety about the real world.

It would help if we knew just what fantasy ethos you are playing, such as "NeverWinterNights", or is it perhaps "Warhammer"?, maybe "Lord of the Rings Online"?

About 2 minutes in battle while on patrol in Iraq or Afganistan might help you get a grip on the planet you apparently reside upon, albeit tucked away in mom's basement with your laptop.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

[/indent]Okay, let us for the moment assume your hypothesis as valid. Your next step here will be to demonstrate for us the motives of the company. What are their motives and can you provide documentation for those motives.

I think you have this backwards.

Its not a conspiracy on this level. The motive of profit and control are publicly acknowledged by all international corporations. Its always been the "bottom line". Just sit in on any shareholders' meeting.

It is up to those who claim otherwise to prove some other benign or charitable motivation. I suggest you get busy proving that big corps are really Santa-Claus-like entities that spend the majority of their efforts "helping mankind" and easing poverty.

(1) Profit over safety?
(2) Control of the masses through drug dependency?
(3) Population reduction?

Were any of these ever in any doubt?

(1) Profit over Safety:

The current oil disaster in the gulf of Mexico is a textbook example: The dangers were well known, but the company operated at great risk anyway, and BLAM 11 men died.

Now BP has spent the last 2 months simply hooking up and pumping more oil out of the well instead of shutting it down, something that could have been done the first day, with a small explosive device. They however, are happy to pump 25,000 barrels of oil a day out of the leaky well instead.

Handsome is as handsome does.


(2) Control the masses through drug dependancy

An acknowledged motivation for all drug pushers, legal and illegal, again for profit. The 20,000 dead in Mexico are a clear example of how far drug dealers will go to "control" things.


(3) Population Reduction

Ask any racist, xenophobe, or tribal special interest group. These things are openly admitted. Or just read "Mein Camf" There is nothing to prove, unless, one wishes to sell the opposite hypothesis.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[CabinetMaker]

I think you have this backwards.

Its not a conspiracy on this level. The motive of profit and control are publicly acknowledged by all international corporations. Its always been the "bottom line". Just sit in on any shareholders' meeting.

It is up to those who claim otherwise to prove some other benign or charitable motivation. I suggest you get busy proving that big corps are really Santa-Claus-like entities that spend the majority of their efforts "helping mankind" and easing poverty.

Were any of these ever in any doubt?

Okay, I agree with this. Companies are motivated by profit and they can be trusted to always place profit first. Publicly traded companies are required to do so.

(1) Profit over Safety:

The current oil disaster in the gulf of Mexico is a textbook example: The dangers were well known, but the company operated at great risk anyway, and BLAM 11 men died.

Now BP has spent the last 2 months simply hooking up and pumping more oil out of the well instead of shutting it down, something that could have been done the first day, with a small explosive device. They however, are happy to pump 25,000 barrels of oil a day out of the leaky well instead.

Handsome is as handsome does.

This is a gusher meaning the well is currently self-producing. There is enough pressure in the reservoir to push the oil up the drill pipe. How would blowing up the pipe stop the oil from being pumped out of the well? Short answer, it wouldn't. The oil will continue to be pushed out of the reservoir until the pressure inside the reservoir is equal to the pressure at the site of the rupture.

(2) Control the masses through drug dependancy

An acknowledged motivation for all drug pushers, legal and illegal, again for profit. The 20,000 dead in Mexico are a clear example of how far drug dealers will go to "control" things.

True for illegal drug dealers. You have not proven the motive of the large drug companies. Do you have evidence that they intentionally produce drugs that are designed to make people dependent on them? Is the EPA in collusion with the large drug companies in attempting to hook people on drugs? What about doctors who generally do not see any profit for proscribing drugs?

(3) Population Reduction

Ask any racist, xenophobe, or tribal special interest group. These things are openly admitted. Or just read "Mein Camf" There is nothing to prove, unless, one wishes to sell the opposite hypothesis.

peace
Nazaroo

Isn't it rather difficult to extract maximum profit out of dead people? You are claiming mutually exclusive motives for the same actions. Which one is the true motive?

 

[Gerald]

Isn't it rather difficult to extract maximum profit out of dead people?

Two words: Soylent Green.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Two words: Soylent Green.

Adds a whole dimension to the phrase, "Lets eat Chinese tonight!"

 

[LightSon]

Adds a whole dimension to the phrase, "Lets eat Chinese tonight!"

The wok of life.