Does God know the future?

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Can you establish even on syllable of this Biblically?

Yes, the Bible states thats all things are subject to God.

 

[Yorzhik]

My wife is Orthodox. It's better than Catholic at least.

 

[Clete]

I already responded to it and dispelled it with ease, Yorkitz.

Nancy this is the first intellectually dishonest post I've seen from you. I don't recall whether or not you and I have had exchanges in the past but up to this post you've been doing nicely in regards to responding honestly. You have neither responded nor dispelled anything, as far as I can tell you aren't even talking about the same issue.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[nancy]

Clete, this is the last time I will answer this specific take on the argument.

You have the free will to take your car or not. Just because God observes what choice you pick does not take away your free will decision, he is just observing your free will decision.

Take an example if I watch a documentary on WWII. Just because I know the outcome of the war does not mean that the people in the documentary did not have a free will choice in what they did at that time. I'm just watching what occured.

 

[Clete]

Yes, the Bible states thats all things are subject to God.

The Bible says anything you want it to say if you do not use sound reason.

I want chapter and verse please and a specific argument that establishes your previous post.

I'd be willing to wager that you cannot do it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Hasan_ibn_Sabah, is a unique name, where is it dervived from?

Actually Hasan is quite a common name, ibn likes like the Hebrew 'ben, it means "son of" or "child of", Sabah is common too, its a place name.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

The Bible says anything you want it to say if you do not use sound reason.

I want chapter and verse please and a specific argument that establishes your previous post.

I'd be willing to wager that you cannot do it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

So you don't beleive all things are subject to God?

 

[Clete]

Clete, this is the last time I will answer this specific take on the argument.

You have the free will to take your car or not. Just because God observes what choice you pick does not take away your free will decision, he is just observing your free will decision.

Take an example if I watch a documentary on WWII. Just because I know the outcome of the war does not mean that the people in the documentary did not have a free will choice in what they did at that time. I'm just watching what occured.

WWII happen in the past Nancy. The past is fixed and so of course this does not apply. Can people in the past redo things so that history is changing all the time only we can't tell because to us the past is the past and our knowledge of it changes as it changes and so it seems to us not to change? Rediculous right? So your example doesn't apply. People in the past cannot do otherwise because their deeds have already been done. If God has already seen what I will do then I am no different that a character in your documentory and have no freedom to do anything other than what God has witnessed.
No matter how you slice it. If God knows the future then I do not have free will. The logic is perfect and inescapable. If you want to believe that God knows the future fine, believe what you want, but you cannot have it both ways.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

So you don't beleive all things are subject to God?

I will not respond to you again until you establish you previous post. I am not stupid Hasan.

 

[nancy]

Clete if God is outside time then he can know the future.

I have simply refuted your argument by explaining over and over again(if you want to say I have never addressed it, I guess that's your free will choice) that foreknowledge is not causal and therefore foreknowledge does not cause our future choices.

My example is valid in that observing something does not cause something to occur.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

I will not respond to you again until you establish you previous post. I am not stupid Hasan.

Okay

Bible: Know ye that the Lord he is God

Bible:Know ye that the Lord he is God

Bible: O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

Bible: God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Bible: The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with strength wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved.

Judaic Prayer: Hear us Lord, Master of the Universe

You: God is subject to time.

Thats just psalms and a portion on how the Jews address God, God is Soveriegn over the universe, over the entire universe according to the Bible, the entire universe is the whole of the spacetime continuim. The Bible clearly states that God is Sovereign over everything, the whole Bible is a testament to that fact. God the Father gives all Authority and makes all things subject to Jesus Christ. How can God do that if all thing are not subject to God.

Now show me where in the Bible does it say that God is subject to time

 

[drbrumley]

Well, another muslim. Thats cool.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Well, another muslim. Thats cool.

Where?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Clete if God is outside time then he can know the future.

I am right, therefore . . . I am right.

Nancy surely you can do better?

My example is valid in that observing something does not cause something to occur.

If your observation of an event is prior to the event i.e., foreknowledge, and your observation is perfect (the correct actual future outcome) then there is only one possible future and therefore freewill is removed.

You cannot have your cake and eat it to.

 

[drbrumley]

Where?

If your not, the name implies it. My apologies.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Okay

Bible: Know ye that the Lord he is God

Bible:Know ye that the Lord he is God

Bible: O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

Bible: God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Bible: The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with strength wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved.

Judaic Prayer: Hear us Lord, Master of the Universe

You: God is subject to time.

Thats just psalms and a portion on how the Jews address God, God is Soveriegn over the universe, over the entire universe according to the Bible, the entire universe is the whole of the spacetime continuim. The Bible clearly states that God is Sovereign over everything, the whole Bible is a testament to that fact. God the Father gives all Authority and makes all things subject to Jesus Christ. How can God do that if all thing are not subject to God.

Now show me where in the Bible does it say that God is subject to time

I think you think you are making some type of logical point but it's simply not there.

You have an inability to distinguish time (the measurement) from time (the concept of a sequentially reality).

 

[nancy]

Clete, here is a better example.

According to Einstein's theories, if I was travelling at the speed of light, I could observe events that are not moving at the speed of light at an accelerated rate and see the future of those events relative to my frame of reference.

I would see people quickly making whatever free will choices they can, but I don't stop them from having free will just because I observe them from my realtive position.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

If your not, the name implies it. My apologies.

I am an Orthodox Christian, Greek Orthodox Christian variety, we go way back to the 1st century Church, you know The Church, the real Church, the one established by Christ himself not Pope Linus, not Emperor Constantine or Martin Luther or John Calvin or Pat Robertson but the Church established by Christ.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

I think you think you are making some type of logical point but it's simply not there.

You have an inability to distinguish time (the measurement) from time (the concept of a sequentially reality).

Point was, the Bible clearly states that all things are subject to God, both concepts in the human mind and the reality outside the human mind are subject to God.

Why are you people insisting that God is subject to anything when that clearly contradicts the Bible?

 

[drbrumley]

I am an Orthodox Christian, Greek Orthodox Christian variety, we go way back to the 1st century Church, you know The Church, the real Church, the one established by Christ himself not Pope Linus, not Emperor Constantine or Martin Luther or John Calvin or Pat Robertson but the Church established by Christ.

ok, if you say so.......:darwinsm:

sorry