Does God know the future?

[nancy]

I already responded to it and dispelled it with ease, Yorkitz.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

I already responded to it and dispelled it with ease, Yorkitz.

I don't see how causality can be antithetical to the Christian worldview, unless said Christian worldview is antithetical to reality and God.

 

[Yorzhik]

Nancy, your response was "I don't understand." This is your quote:

Yorkitz, if what is why and when is where is how if?

The statement above makes as much sense as your post.

So I made a simpler question that was easier to understand. Here it is:

Every choice we make has causes. Every cause is known by God, therefore God knows all our choices.

Is that correct?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

can you show me biblical support for God being subject to time? Ig God is subject to time, then Time is bigger thatn God, and we shouldnt be worshipping God but Time. But the Bible says all things and that means all things including time are subject to God. But you say differently, so i have to agree with you instead of the Bible.

What does the Bible say about creation?

Does it say God created all at once outside of time?

Or does it say God created in 6 days and rested on the 7th?

And . . . yes, God created "all things" but we should rightly interpret that to mean "all things in regard to creation". Because there are some obvious exclusions to "all things" i.e., God didn't created Himself, He didn't create love, He didn't create righteousness nor mercy. Some things aren't created yet exist because God exists. Time is one such thing (if you can call it a thing). Time . . . the concept that one event follows another event and one thought follows another thought, that is all time is - a concept, a way to explain reality in a rational way.

God is a rational, logical and a Living God therefore we (His creation) can conceptualize time in that we can understand that one event follows another event and one thought follows another thought etc.

 

[Poly]

can you show me biblical support for God being subject to time?

No, you are the one bringing this up and claiming the illogical. It is your responsibility to back it up.

Ig God is subject to time, then Time is bigger thatn God, and we shouldnt be worshipping God but Time. But the Bible says all things and that means all things including time are subject to God. But you say differently, so i have to agree with you instead of the Bible.

But that's just it. You have to prove that time is something that one would have to "subject" themselves to as if it were a constraining thing rather than a simple concept to express the the measure and passing of events, proceedings, occurances, etc.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Time in according to physicist is not just some mere abstract idea floating in our heads, it is something with physical properties - it is a dimension.

The Genesis account is allegory, but it does provide clues as to the nature of Creation, especially when god brings light into being, thats the foundation of matter. God doesn't need to be created because God is not a creature nor is God a thing.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

There are three views regarding children who die before the age of accountability, that is, before they are old enough to be morally responsible for their own actions.

This "solution" skips the most logical view regarding the topic. Lets call this view number 4.

Upon death the faculties of ones soul/spirit are made whole. A child is matured, a retarded person is healed etc. The matured soul is judged. If that soul is found guilty and accountable for sin that soul is eternally condemned. If that soul is not found guilty or accountable for sin that soul is able to choose where it would like to spend eternity. I think other views violate God's character and assume He forces souls into heaven that do not wish to be there. God is a gentleman.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

No, you are the one bringing this up and claiming the illogical. It is you're responsibility to back it up.




But that's just it. You have to prove that time is something that one would have to "subject" themselves to as if it were a constraining thing rather than a simple concept to express the the measure and passing of events, proceedings, occurances, etc.

The problem is , we have two definitions of time going, I am defing time as one part of the spacetime continuim and your defining it as a concept of measurement. To me God is niether subject to the dimension or the concept.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Time in according to physicist is not just some mere abstract idea floating in our heads, it is something with physical properties - it is a dimension.

You are referring to the measurement of time, not the concept of time.

The Genesis account is allegory, but it does provide clues as to the nature of Creation, especially when god brings light into being, thats the foundation of matter. God doesn't need to be created because God is not a creature nor is God a thing.

I disagree. There is no logical reason whatsoever to assume that God's word means something other than what is so plainly says.

God created in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Apparently you disagree.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

There is no logical reason whatsoever to assume that God's word means something other than what is so plainly says.

If you really beleive that there is no allegory in God's word, or that we have to take everything that the Bible says literally then you have to accept that life is meaningless and a literal 10- headeddragon is going to pop out of the sea, tell us to worship it and put 666 on our heads.

A literal dragon.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

If you really beleive that there is no allegory in God's word, or that we have to take everything that the Bible says literally then you have to accept that life is meaningless and a literal 10- headeddragon is going to pop out of the sea, tell us to worship it and put 666 on our heads.

A literal dragon.

:bang:

Listen, listen . . .

Slow down and listen.

Did I say . . . "There is NO allegory in the Bible?" Or did I say . . . "There is no logical reason whatsoever to assume that God's word means something other than what is so plainly says."?

There is simply no reason to assume that the creation account in Genesis is allegorical unless of course you are a nut-ball evolutionist.

 

[Clete]

Clete, without going into the causal determinism, you haven't addressed the issue.

In terms of the chemical experiment, how is standing back and observing how the chemicals react CAUSING the chemical reaction itself.

Foreknowledge or observing an outcome is not causal.

I am not saying that it is causal, I'm saying that foreknowledge removes one's ability to do otherwise and therefore it destroys freedom because freedom is defined as being able to do or to do otherwise.

Let me ask you the same question I asked on another thread on this same topic.

Let's say that God knows for certain (because He saw it happen in the future or by whatever means) that 20 minutes from now I will be involved in a car accident where my legs are crushed by my strearing wheel and broken. Do I have the ability to get into my car or to do otherwise (say for example stay here at work for an extra hour and avoid this "fate" that God has foreseen?

If you answer "yes" then you must admit that God did not KNOW that I would have the accident. If you answer "no" then you must admit that I did not have the freedom to do otherwise.

Get it?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

how can we make this dovetail with the "no sadness in heaven" concept put forth by Intro2faith?
or does it not?

I do not beleive that there will be no sadness in heaven. In fact the Bible seems to indicate the reverse. God will dry every tear, right? Why would that be necessary if there were no tears shed in heaven?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

There is simply no reason to assume that the creation account in Genesis is allegorical unless of course you are a nut-ball evolutionist.

With that reasoning there is no reason to assume the part about 10 headed dragors is allegorical either, if God's word is be taken plainly.

 

[Clete]

Clete, God created us to have free will. In other words God CAUSED us to have free will. The fact that God caused us to have human freedom makes freedom free not unfree. Grace establishes nature rather than removing it.

You are right that free will is the the cause of its own movement. But what is free is not necesarily the cause of itself as neither for one thing to be the cause of another has to be the first cause.

Yeah, okay. Sounds good to me. I really think you are misunderstanding my position, or else I am misunderstanding yours.
I am saying we are free not that we aren't. It is Calvinism that teaches we aren't free and freedom is logically incompatible with a primary tennet of Arminianism.

 

[Freak]

With that reasoning there is no reason to assume the part about 10 headed dragors is allegorical either, if God's word is be taken plainly.

Another Muslim? No?

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Another Muslim? No?

No, Orthodox Christian, not many of those around here.

 

[Freak]

No, Orthodox Christian, not many of those around here.

Hasan_ibn_Sabah, is a unique name, where is it dervived from?

 

[Clete]

God doesn't need to know the future, nor does God need to plan things out.
God is not subject to time, only creatures who are subject to time find it necessary to make plans. God doesnt need to make plans because of the space/time continuim is subject to God, not the other way around.

Also, God doesn't have a plan for your life, your life is God's will.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Can you establish even on syllable of this Biblically?

 

[Clete]

So what you are saying is God is subject to time.

Time is not a thing one is subject to. Why do people insist on talking about time as though it were something more than an idea. Time is duration and succestion. When you say that God is eternal you are not saying that He is timeless you are saying that He has not limitation on His duration, that He has an unlimited or eternal amount of time. It's just the exact opposite of being timeless.

Resting in Him,
Clete