There is no assurance of salvation for the Calvinist. They are not trusting in the Gospel. They are trusting in themselves. It is very much like Catholicism.
Does God Create Reprobates?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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There is no assurance of salvation for the Calvinist. They are not trusting in the Gospel. They are trusting in themselves. It is very much like Catholicism.
beloved57
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You teach that man is saved by what they do!
musterion
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If I'm drowning and a guy on the deck of a ship throws me a life ring, and I take it, my surviving does not = "I saved myself." That guy saved me. But if I reject his life ring and drown, I chose to doom myself. So it is with the Gospel of the grace of God, which you know only enough about to reject it.
Jesus said, "He that believes in him is not condemned" John 3:18.
beloved57
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Wonder if you were already drowned, dead ?
beloved57
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They are not! Neither is anyone He lived and died for, because He obeyed Gods Law perfectly for them, and they are believers by Him. The doers of the Law shall be Justified Rom 2:13! Do you deny that Christ was a doer of the Law?
Ask Mr. Religion
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Actually it means you cooperated in the saving of yourself, hence synergism, which is always the root of most disagreements involving soteriology.
No one can believe unless God grants it and all to whom God grants the Son will believe.
See John 6:63-65 which plainly teaches that regeneraiton precedes faith.
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)
65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
It unambiguously teaches that no one can believe in Jesus Christ unless God grants it... and it is the Spirit who quickens, regenerates and gives life. If that were not enough, in John 6:37 of the same passage Jesus teaches with the same language that all whom God grants will have faith in Christ.
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."
To be perfectly clear, monergism asserts that God is not unconditionally willing to save each and every person, rather that God instead has mercy on whom He will have mercy. The point is not that monergism provides a way to reconcile God's universal desire to save with a limited number of people actually being saved, but that synergism's primary raison d'etre is false: the only escape for the synergist from an assertion that God is unwilling to save each and every person, is that God is actually unable to save each and every person, and that assertion denies God's omnipotence.
Think about it and it will come to you. :AMR:
AMR
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So what else do you have to do to stay saved, as a calvinist ?
musterion
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No it doesn't, and your insistence on loading the term that way won't fly. Simply obeying God by believing what He wants believed does not mean that, in believing it, I helped Him to save me. The work of salvation is a gift but, as with any gift, one that all who hear may reject or accept. In rejecting it, they take on 100% of the responsibility and condemnation because they chose to reject it. In accepting it, they receive 0% credit or merit because the gift is 100% His to give and the work is already 100% completed by Christ.
What is it about that you find unfathomable?
God expects to be believed and condemns those who won't. That simple fact alone proves free will exists in all men and that any without exception could be saved. Else He could never justly condemn anyone for not believing Him.
beloved57
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You and I dont believe in the same God ! The God I Worship created the reprobate as Vessels of Wrath and then they are fitted for destruction !
musterion
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Also, John 6:45 teaches who was to be drawn to Christ: those who had already been taught by the Father by paying attention to and believing the prophets; those who were actually waiting and watching for Messiah. John 6:63-65 says much the same thing, that those who knew and believed the prophets would be drawn to Him. That is why Christ pointed His critics back to the prophets (John 5:39-40).
glorydaz
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:thumb:
beloved57
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Invalid comments not supported by scripture!
Ask Mr. Religion
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Redefining the word "cooperation" is no escape from the reality of the matter. Your own words betray your denial:
No matter what winsome or flowery prose you construct, the plain fact is you are cooperating. You are offered "a life ring" as you thrash about; you can choose to take it or not take it. You take it. You declare you could have rejected the life ring and perish. Hence, you cooperated. Why seek to deny the obvious fact that you decided to grab the ring tossed to you by "that guy"?
If you are looking for what I consider a more accurate metaphor, see:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4447283#post4447283
AMR
musterion
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Not cooperated, obeyed (2 Thess 1:8). Obeyed whom? God, Whose gift of salvation is not in any sense or degree of ourselves (Eph 2:8-9).
Yet you insist on a straw man that makes us out, even if only potentially, to boast that we have cooperated in our own salvation, while in reality we find the thought abhorrent and, in any case, Scripture totally precludes it.
But once again, all of this is simply a dodge on your part to avoid the problem of unelected reprobates being damned specifically for their unbelief, which makes God out to be a liar.
beloved57
Well-known member
pate
Thats True, However those who believe not on Him that He died for are not condemned either, because they were reconciled to God by His Death He died for them, while they were enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Thats True, However those who believe not on Him that He died for are not condemned either, because they were reconciled to God by His Death He died for them, while they were enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
God will ultimately give everyone what they want.
I can see where many on the Forum would not be happy to spend eternity in heaven with Christ. God does not force himself on anyone. If you don't want to go to heaven you won't have to be there.
The only ones that will be in heaven with Christ are those that want to be there.
I can see where many on the Forum would not be happy to spend eternity in heaven with Christ. God does not force himself on anyone. If you don't want to go to heaven you won't have to be there.
The only ones that will be in heaven with Christ are those that want to be there.
beloved57
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Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers, hating God Rom 5:10!
musterion
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Exactl right. Christ died for all, without exception.