Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Calvinism has CHANGED THE CHARACTER and INTENT of the God of the Bible in order to make Him fit their "Belief System." That I can see. Have you read the ENTIRE Bible word for word, name by name and cover to cover?

This is just like your question to me about never having seen my testimony. I provided it pointing to a post containing it long before you sought it. I asked for your own, and have yet to see it. I assume, like all other things you claim, it is "over there". :AMR:

Yes, I have read the Bible in its entirety. I do so twice annually, GM, and have been doing so for over forty years.

I assume you have a point behind such a question about reading the Bible besides just thumping your own chest. Make it.

The remainder of your statement is yet more opinion without any supporting argumentation to make the vapid opinion worth examination for any truth value.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Calvinists need to take a closer look at the God of the Old Testament. (He's also the ONLY God) He desired His Chosen People to worship Him alone and not cleave to idols. Yet, at times, they CHOSE to rebel against Him and worship their idols. That was their choice. How could they have a CHOICE if they lacked FREE WILL?

Define "free will", GM.

Mine: the ability to choose according to one's greatest inclinations at the moment one so chooses.

Yours?

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Would it not be counter productive for God to CHOOSE for His people to walk away from Him and worship idols? Does that make any sense? I believe God is a logical Creator. Calvinism makes Him out to be illogical.

"I believe" is opinion. Back it up with some argumentation someone can work with.

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Start here:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?119462-Does-Calvinism-Make-God-Unjust&p=4809820&viewfull=1#post4809820

Then I asked:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4810108&viewfull=1#post4810108

Your response was:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4810126&viewfull=1#post4810126

To which comes my rejoinder:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4810417&viewfull=1#post4810417

And we end up here. You post so many streams of consciousness of whatever pops into your head that I guess you have trouble keeping up with your own words. Slow down a wee bit. :AMR:

Bottom line: you claim that you have explained your views beyond mere opinions. I challenge that statement with a request for evidence. You have yet to provide it. Still waiting.

AMR

You've just shown me another "pet peeve" of mine. That being, Links to other areas. I will NOT follow other links. My focus is the right here and the right now. I will not deviate from that area of comfort. If you and I are to have a conversation, it has to be in "Real-time."

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

According to Calvinism, God chose His "Elect" before the foundation of the world and chose the rest for eternal damnation. Only on the basis of His SOVERNIGHTY and not because the supposed Elect were anything special. Yet, we see in the New Testament how God sends His Son to die on the cross for the sins of humanity as a whole. All He asks in return is the faith of the believer. It's by God's Grace through the faith of the individual in the saving power of the shed blood of Christ and His resurrection.

There's a seeming Paradox somewhere within this area of discussion.

"we see from the New Testament how God sends His Son to die on the cross for the sins of humanity as a whole". Nice assertion. Will be worthy of a response when you actually put some meat behind it to make your case.

GM: I am giving a lecture now.

Student: Mr. GM, where in Scripture is it plainly seen that God sent His Son to die on the cross for the sins of humanity as a whole? Can we discuss the evidence?

GM: Shut up. I am lecturing.

Arminians. Sigh.

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If you cannot abide by these options, I will understand.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

As I have said before, I'll say again, I believe Calvinism is a counterfeit somehow devised by Satan to disrupt the purity of the original Gospel of Grace.

Yes, we know that GM likes to state his opinion. We would like to know if he is ever going to get around to bolstering that opinion with some reasons why he has the opinion.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

If, as Calvinists say, "God chooses who gets saved and humanity has no say." Then, all that needs to be done is, kick back and wait and see. However, if the Grace Gospel is correct (and it is) we must hear the Gospel and what it offers, then, we must place ALL of our faith/hope in the Lord Jesus Christ and we are guaranteed eternal life, no judgement, the Righteousness of Christ bestowed upon us as believers, and the knowledge that we are part of the Body of Christ and a Child of God.

Calvinism does in fact claim God is the one choosing and deciding what He has decreed. Calvinism does not say the moral agents simply sit around to wait and see what will happen. God actually decrees that these moral agents possess the liberty of spontaneity, choosing per their inclinations. God even tested our Federal Head, who failed the test during his probationary period and plunged all his progeny into ruin. In other words, all men are born in the sin of Adam and aare sinners from birth. Denying this doctrine of original sin lies at the root of many of your errors.

No one hears the Good News until they are given ears to hear, GM. You think you, as a lost man, were wise enough to choose rightly all by your lonesome. Scripture disagrees with you: Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14. Explain.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

One of your problems AMR is, you write like a textbook. Your posts are like the small print on a prescription bottle. I don't know about you, but, I can't get myself to read that stuff. I get bored right away. The same with contracts. I'd rather have it articulated in such a way that it is kept simple and to the point. I usually won't read a long post in any thread. I try my best to bypass them completely. I write a sentence or a few sentences and leave it at that. That's just me. I refuse to read posts that are longer than a football field or have more words in them than "War and Peace." Again, that's just me. I have my limitations like all of us.

Stop just laying pipe for your eventual bowing out of the discussion behind woe is me! claims about the effort required. This is your usual tactic...post lots of sweeping and unsupported opinions, then refuse to stand still and defend them upon cross-examination. I have answered all your opinions with bite-sized responses. Seems your "lecture" hope is but dry bones until you can respond substantively.

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Define "free will", GM.

Mine: the ability to choose according to one's greatest inclinations at the moment one so chooses.

Yours?

AMR

I take the simple road of explaining "Free will" in the Spiritual sense. Free will to me means God created Humanity and the angelic beings with an ability to choose which course they will take in any given situation and, in humanities case, what they will choose to place their faith in. Humanity chooses where they will work, what they will eat, who they will marry, what religion they will embrace, etc. God allows us to make our own decisions regarding all things. He doesn't intervene except if it's an answer to prayer or He has a special interest in something. Basically, we are "Free-agents" when it comes to our life chooses.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Post #1193 is an excellent example of what I'm talking about. If ya wanna converse with me you're gonna have to keep it simple or forget it and look for someone with more patience.

The post in question was not even directed to you. I happen to have history with the person to whom I directed my response and he has no issue with substantive comments, which he also happens to employ. You really do not know what you are talking about and seem desperate to run from me as I respond to your opinions. Sooner or later as I challenge you time and again, you will eventually wave it all off behind these whining complaints about how hard I am making you work to substantiate your mere opinions.

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Stop just laying pipe for your eventual bowing out of the discussion behind woe is me! claims about the effort required. This is your usual tactic...post lots of sweeping and unsupported opinions, then refuse to stand still and defend them upon cross-examination. I have answered all your opinions with bite-sized responses. Seems your "lecture" hope is but dry bones until you can respond substantively.

AMR

I'm not in a courtroom here. This is merely a conversation. You are NOT the judge and I'm certainly not the defendant. Let's get that straight, okay?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

It's always safe to think of your audience as having the equivalent education of a High School Junior-senior that way you can't go wrong.

The FOG Index (look it up) of my posts is well within the grasp of the average high schooler, GM. You do not know what you are talking about.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Enough of the lecture, your turn.

Try to keep up. The burden is upon you, GM. Let's see how you fare.

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The post in question was not even directed to you. I happen to have history with the person to whom I directed my response and he has no issue with substantive comments, which he also happens to employ. You really do not know what you are talking about and seem desperate to run from me as I respond to your opinions. Sooner or later as I challenge you time and again, you will eventually wave it all off behind these whining complaints about how hard I am making you work to substantiate your mere opinions.

AMR

I realize it was not directed at me. I was merely using it as an example.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

By the way AMR, your aggravation is showing.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

f somebody is going to post a Scripture verse, why not post the entire verse so the reader can peruse it right before them rather than, take the time to look it up?

Posted verses are readily hyperlinked with the Reftagger plugin at the site. Hover over any properly cited verse and the text in question pops up for easy review. Do you know how to use this site? :idunno:

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Try to keep up. The burden is upon you, GM. Let's see how you fare.

AMR

I don't see it the way you do AMR. Therefore, why not refrain from making unfounded accusations and perpetuating name calling. It makes you look angry and petty.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Posted verses are readily hyperlinked with the Reftagger plugin at the site. Hover over any properly cited verse and the text in question pops up for easy review. Do you know how to use this site? :idunno:

AMR

That's not always the case.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The FOG Index (look it up) of my posts is well within the grasp of the average high schooler, GM. You do not know what you are talking about.

AMR

That's coming from your perception of yourself.