Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[God's Truth]

Calvinism is the Gospel, hombre. It is the Christianity which everyone in the Bible believed, from Abraham to Paul :thumb:

Accordingly, Calvinism holds to all the traditional standards, including water baptism, communion, and elder council.
What say MAD, though, which rejects them all

The road to destruction is WIDE. The Catholic religion is wide with destruction.

There is a way that seems right to a man, it does not lead to life.

The Catholics do just about everything opposite of what God says that they possible can.

 

[Crucible]

The Catholics do just about everything opposite of what God says that they possible can.

That's not really true.

The problem with Catholicism has nothing to do with the practice thereof, but the dogma of it's church at large. They put God in Peter's seat, and place the Pope as the conduit.

And because the Roman Church is so old, it is ripe with idolatry passed down from historical pagan influences. The hallowing of objects for example is straight out of the Gnostic camp, which the RCC ironically declared heretical.

All the things wrong with their church is due to it's papal succession- each one nails something new into it, and because of their notion of infallibility they continue to rationalize it all into one solid thing.


But here is something that is true of most non-Catholic sects: you all perpetuate 'easy believism', even if it's not your intent, and that has decimated everything from proper doctrine to proper obedience. That's why you all don't like Reformed doctrine, and even go as far as to call it 'Catholic'- but really, it's just that you've gone so far away from traditional Christianity that anything else seems alien.

Just a network of heresy- rejecting baptism- rejecting the Trinity :freak:

I wouldn't touch such beliefs with a ten foot pole lain:

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Look it up. Its a popular new age term back in my old days when jehovah witness was invented. Its the root of your beliefs invented by men. Your beliefs are based off that. Don't be surprise when your church say, "meet your Ascended Master Lord Maitreya".
I learned where your scam came from a long time ago. You probably believe that Michael is Jesus and soul sleep

I think Our Lord's condemnation of the errorists of His day includes those that would deny the Triune Godhead:

Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you…make a single proselyte…twice as much a child of hell as yourselves”.

Give them no platform for their views, only condemnation, warning, and woe.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

And the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Indeed. All types of persons in the world who are the believing ones.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

That's not really true.

It is really true. In every way there is to disobey, the Catholics do it.

The problem with Catholicism has nothing to do with the practice thereof, but the dogma of it's church at large. They put God in Peter's seat, and place the Pope as the conduit.

And because the Roman Church is so old, it is ripe with idolatry passed down from historical pagan influences.

The false doctrines started before they were really old.

The Truth is really old and it can still be found.

The hallowing of objects for example is straight out of the Gnostic camp, which the RCC ironically declared heretical.

The Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics worship objects/relics.

All the things wrong with their church is due to it's papal succession- each one nails something new into it, and because of their notion of infallibility they continue to rationalize it all into one solid thing.

The Orthodox Catholics are not under the pope, yet they have many false doctrines themselves.

But here is something that is true of most non-Catholic sects: you all perpetuate 'easy believism', even if it's not your intent, and that has decimated everything from proper doctrine to proper obedience.

You should debate me and not what other denominations say, because I preach we have to obey to get saved, and to stay saved. The Catholics do not obey.

That's why you all don't like Reformed doctrine, and even go as far as to call it 'Catholic'- but really, it's just that you've gone so far away from traditional Christianity that anything else seems alien.

Just a network of heresy- rejecting baptism- rejecting the Trinity

I wouldn't touch such beliefs with a ten foot pole

You are too afraid to look at those things and that is why you are still in false teachings about it.

As for the trinity, there are three, but they are not separate and different from each other as the trinity doctrine says.

As for water baptism, we are to get water baptized, but not children and babies who cannot repent.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

AMR's Statement of Faith

AMR's Statement of Faith

What?! What kind of nonsensical rambling are you attempting to pass off as truth? I haven't even spoken of the gospel explicitly as I understand it here.

Why not do so then and clear up any misunderstanding arising from your inclusiveness attitudes about those beyond the bounds of orthodoxy?

Do you have a statement of faith written down?

You can start with my own and modify it to suit your own views:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Elected-Man&p=4636553&viewfull=1#post4636553

Unless we stand for something, we will fall for anything.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

Why not do so then and clear up any misunderstanding arising from your inclusiveness attitudes about those beyond the bounds of orthodoxy?

Do you have a statement of faith written down?

You can start with my own and modify it to suit your own views:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Elected-Man&p=4636553&viewfull=1#post4636553

Unless we stand for something, we will fall for anything.

AMR

Go deal with all those scriptures I posted and explained to you. You kept linking to your poor excuse of a defense for your beliefs and would not debate as one should. Then when I did all the work of carefully explaining your errors in understanding which you displayed in your copy and pasted old material, you just ignored everything I said in defense of the truth.

You do not answer questions or try to reply to what others say. You merely post a lot of scriptures references and then give a long winded puffed up speech showing you do not understand the scriptures. Then you claim victory.

 

[Crucible]

The Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics worship objects/relics.

No they don't, that's just a lie you all invented and refuse to concede otherwise.

The Orthodox Catholics are not under the pope, yet they have many false doctrines themselves.

They don't call their leader the 'Pope' but rather their 'Patriarch'. They are Catholic, only they don't hold to 'infallibility' or the 'Filioque' (the Spirit descending from both the Son and Father).

The Catholics do not obey.

How does a practicing Catholic 'not obey'?

You are too afraid to look at those things and that is why you are still in false teachings about it.

No, rather I look at the facts rather than then the made up drivel many sects have made up for themselves

As for the trinity, there are three, but they are not separate and different from each other as the trinity doctrine says.

The Trinity is not a doctrine, it is a dogma. What you are speaking of is 'modalism' and it was considered heretical before Christianity even became the state religion of Rome.

As for water baptism, we are to get water baptized, but not children and babies who cannot repent.

Baptism is not repentance, it is membership into a communion.

 

[God's Truth]

No they don't, that's just a lie you all invented and refuse to concede otherwise.



They don't call their leader the 'Pope' but rather their 'Patriarch'. They are Catholic, only they don't hold to 'infallibility' or the 'Filioque' (the Spirit descending from both the Son and Father).



How does a practicing Catholic 'not obey'?



No, rather I look at the facts rather than then the made up drivel many sects have made up for themselves



The Trinity is not a doctrine, it is a dogma. What you are speaking of is 'modalism' and it was considered heretical before Christianity even became the state religion of Rome.



Baptism is not repentance, it is membership into a communion.

It is too bad that you do not agree. The topic is really about Calvinism though and how they make God unjust.

Calvinists say that no man can believe and obey without first being saved, and that God sends the rest to Hell.

I have proven with scripture that we can believe and obey before being saved in order to get saved and to stay saved.

 

[Crucible]

Calvinists say that no man can believe and obey without first being saved, and that God sends the rest to Hell.

Calvinism holds that God knew the fate of mankind beforehand, and therefore preordained who He would save according to His providence before He got involved with mankind.
That is the basis on which the edifice of Reformed doctrine is built on- a creator who actually holds true to being omniscient and sovereign.

Also
It is why separating 'foreknowledge' and 'predestination' is completely errant- and yet, many of you have managed to preach that error and gain followers who don't know better.

I have proven with scripture that we can believe and obey before being saved in order to get saved and to stay saved.

:chuckle:

If you actually took the time to study Calvin's literature, you'd realize how little you know about the scriptures to be perfectly honest. With the way you all go about it, it's apparent that your beliefs are utterly arbitrary.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The JW falsely reworded everything in thier NWT bible so you'll have to blame them for their nonsense

No that doesn't work.

I'm not a jw.

And as previously stated; I have yet to go into any detail on my understanding of the gospel, yet you accuse me of following some doctrine and person I've never even heard of.

Don't worry about falsely accusing me of things... It's okay.

Hopefully, GOD willing, we can find, know, and correct our own errors and edify one another.

I wish you the best, sincerely,

Peace

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[God's Truth]

Calvinism holds that God knew the fate of mankind beforehand, and therefore preordained who He would save according to His providence before He got involved with mankind.
That is the basis on which the edifice of Reformed doctrine is built on- a creator who actually holds true to being omniscient and sovereign.

The plan for salvation was made before the creation of anything, and that salvation is about whosoever believes and obeys. You saying it means all will not believe and obey anything therefore God chooses some for no known reason and sends the rest to Hell is just not scripture.

If you actually took the time to study Calvin's literature, you'd realize how little you know about the scriptures to be perfectly honest. With the way you all go about it, it's apparent that your beliefs are utterly arbitrary.

I have studied Calvinism and know what they preach.
I am still waiting for you to give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Calvinism is the Gospel, hombre. It is the Christianity which everyone in the Bible believed, from Abraham to Paul :thumb:

Accordingly, Calvinism holds to all the traditional standards, including water baptism, communion, and elder council.
What say MAD, though, which rejects them all

Sounds like talking to a Catholic.

Check and see what established those traditions, then check and see what the Christ said about tradition in most cases. Then look at the works produced by those who established said traditions.

With a little hope and self honesty, you may start to see some issues. Maybe not though. One can still hope for such though.

Peace

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[popsthebuilder]

I think Our Lord's condemnation of the errorists of His day includes those that would deny the Triune Godhead:

Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you…make a single proselyte…twice as much a child of hell as yourselves”.

Give them no platform for their views, only condemnation, warning, and woe.

AMR

Complete conjecture.

Read.

Matthew: 23. 13. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 23. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30. And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34. Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35. That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. - Bible Offline

Peace

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[Crucible]

I am still waiting for you to give the scripture that says God saves unbelievers.

Calvinism doesn't teach that unbelievers are saved, it teaches this quite simply: that a man is not saved because he believes in Christ, but rather believes in Christ because he is saved.

I have studied Calvinism and know what they preach.

:rotfl: That's a good one, tell it again.

Calvinist ideology is heavily based upon Augustinian theology, in which God is before anything else immutable. That means He is not subject to changing His mind or His will being altered.

If you really knew Calvinism, you would know St. Augustine's influence on Reformed belief. But you don't- you rather see it as merely a 16th century incantation. You all don't really know what it is you're against, it's rather some imagination spawned from unfounded prejudice.

 

[God's Truth]

Calvinism doesn't teach that unbelievers are saved, it teaches this quite simply: that a man is not saved because he believes in Christ, but rather believes in Christ because he is saved.

That is what I said. Calvinists say Calvinists do not believe in Christ until after they are saved.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Why not do so then and clear up any misunderstanding arising from your inclusiveness attitudes about those beyond the bounds of orthodoxy?

Do you have a statement of faith written down?

You can start with my own and modify it to suit your own views:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Elected-Man&p=4636553&viewfull=1#post4636553

Unless we stand for something, we will fall for anything.

AMR

We are to be judged by our works, not by a statement or creed of faith.

If I see something against what I believe I will let it be known.

Like now the Calvinists here seem bent on insisting orthodoxy and the trinity and acceptance of a particular creed are prerequisites for salvation.

I must say; none are.

If I was to judge some here by their works, which indeed are their words in this particular case;... Well, let's just say I wouldn't be pleased to say it, I would be sad.

Thanks to GOD, even the dead can be born again through Christ, by the Will of GOD.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

 

[Crucible]

That is what I said. Calvinists say Calvinists do not believe in Christ until after they are saved.

A person who never believes was never elected by God- he wasn't chosen to be brought into God's providence.

 

[God's Truth]

A person who never believes was never elected by God- he wasn't chosen to be brought into God's providence.

I understand what you are saying, now prove with scripture that God saves unbelievers.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

We are to be judged by our works, not by a statement or creed of faith.

More sanctimony. No one is implying anything about judgment.

What is exactly wrong with putting down on paper what one believes from his or her study of Scripture? Is your study of Scripture wholly devoid of pencil and paper (or electronic means) in all occasions? Do you mark your bible when studying? Take notes? Anything? If you do, underlying these actions is some motive that can be laid out on paper, "I believe or do not believe this...for this reason." If I may ask, what is your age, for your knee-jerk reactions betray a youthfulness. What does your daily study of Scripture routine look like? Should there be no web sites of churches with written statements of what they believe other than "We believe the Bible!" ?

Is the effort too much to undertake? I have even given you a template to work from and to redo to give you a head start.

You have complained you are misunderstood. You have admitted to communicating awkwardly at times. You have even stated you have not discussed what you believe about the Gospel when you felt you were being misunderstood. My suggestion was made in order to aid you in avoiding such issues. In response, you mount the high horse and go on about creeds and what not. Come back down to earth for a time and not read more into helpful suggestions than they merit.

AMR