Do You Believe and Understand the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ?

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Many will say..."Come on Robert, everybody knows that Jesus died for our sins." The "Historical Gospel" is far more than Jesus dying for our sins. It is the "Historical Gospel" because it took place over 2000 years ago. It is a past, one time, historical event. Many refer to it as the "Christ Event." We had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the Gospel. What took place in the Gospel was between God and his Son Jesus Christ. We are the benefactors of the Gospel. This Gospel calls into question all religions and all religious doctrines and thought.

To understand the Gospel it must be examined in the background of the Old Testament. The Old Testament is a record of man's inability to please a Holy God. Starting with Adam, man is a sinner. Many of the patriarch's and prophets confessed that they were unworthy sinners. Isaiah confessed that,

"We are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we do all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6.

This is the plight of fallen man. He is born a sinner and dies a sinner. The question arises, how then can fallen man be saved? If fallen man could be saved by Calvinism or by Catholicism, then there would be no need for the Gospel. If fallen man could somehow earn favor with God and be saved by his works, or by what he has become (predestinated) then there would be no need for the Gospel. The sin is within, therefore the salvation must be without.

Jesus comes into the world as God's new Adam and humanities new representative.

"Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus Christ) the FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

Jesus is God's justifier, Romans 3:26. And who does Jesus justify?

"Now to him that does works is the reward (salvation) not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that does no works, but believes on him (Jesus) that justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) are counted for righteousness" Romans 4:4, 5.

How does Jesus justify the ungodly? Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. Jesus does for us that which we cannot do for ourselves because we are sinners. He justifies us and makes us holy and without blame in his sight. We are accepted in the beloved, Ephesians 1:6. No Calvinism, Catholicism, religion needed. We are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

What about our sins and the sins of the world? If God in the person of Jesus Christ had not defeated sin, death and the devil there would not be any salvation for anyone. Jesus is Lord. If there was one jot or tittle of the law that was not fulfilled, Jesus would not be in heaven at the right hand of God. If there was one sin that Jesus did not atone for, Jesus would not be in heaven at the right hand of God. If Jesus had not defeated death and the devil, Jesus would not be in heaven at the right hand of God. Jesus's acceptance into heaven is our acceptance. We were accepted in him.

The resounding message of the New Testament is that God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36. Jesus has justified the ungodly and has reconciled us and the world unto God.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them: and has committed unto us the the word of reconciliation" (which is the Gospel) 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Because of the victorious work of Christ, God is at peace with us and the world, Colossians 1:20. When God looks at us all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ, "For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3. We who are saved have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10, and are awaiting his return.
 

Samie

New member
Hi Robert;

You asked: Do you believe and understand the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ?

First, you must know the gospel that Jesus preached, for unless you know the gospel that He preached then neither can you believe NOR understand it, do you agree?

The gospel of Christ is the gospel that He Himself preached as recorded in the Bible, NOT what you wanted Him to have preached. Now, can you show from Scriptures the gospel that Jesus preached?

If Yes, then please show it, and then we discuss.

If you are not able to, just say so, and I'll show it to you and then we discuss.

Thank you, brother.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Many will say..."Come on Robert, everybody knows that Jesus died for our sins." The "Historical Gospel" is far more than Jesus dying for our sins. It is the "Historical Gospel" because it took place over 2000 years ago. It is a past, one time, historical event. Many refer to it as the "Christ Event." We had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the Gospel. What took place in the Gospel was between God and his Son Jesus Christ. We are the benefactors of the Gospel. This Gospel calls into question all religions and all religious doctrines and thought.

To understand the Gospel it must be examined in the background of the Old Testament. The Old Testament is a record of man's inability to please a Holy God. Starting with Adam, man is a sinner. Many of the patriarch's and prophets confessed that they were unworthy sinners. Isaiah confessed that,

"We are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we do all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6.

This is the plight of fallen man. He is born a sinner and dies a sinner. The question arises, how then can fallen man be saved? If fallen man could be saved by Calvinism or by Catholicism, then there would be no need for the Gospel. If fallen man could somehow earn favor with God and be saved by his works, or by what he has become (predestinated) then there would be no need for the Gospel. The sin is within, therefore the salvation must be without.

Jesus comes into the world as God's new Adam and humanities new representative.

"Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus Christ) the FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

Jesus is God's justifier, Romans 3:26. And who does Jesus justify?

"Now to him that does works is the reward (salvation) not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that does no works, but believes on him (Jesus) that justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) are counted for righteousness" Romans 4:4, 5.

How does Jesus justify the ungodly? Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. Jesus does for us that which we cannot do for ourselves because we are sinners. He justifies us and makes us holy and without blame in his sight. We are accepted in the beloved, Ephesians 1:6. No Calvinism, Catholicism, religion needed. We are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

What about our sins and the sins of the world? If God in the person of Jesus Christ had not defeated sin, death and the devil there would not be any salvation for anyone. Jesus is Lord. If there was one jot or tittle of the law that was not fulfilled, Jesus would not be in heaven at the right hand of God. If there was one sin that Jesus did not atone for, Jesus would not be in heaven at the right hand of God. If Jesus had not defeated death and the devil, Jesus would not be in heaven at the right hand of God. Jesus's acceptance into heaven is our acceptance. We were accepted in him.

The resounding message of the New Testament is that God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36. Jesus has justified the ungodly and has reconciled us and the world unto God.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them: and has committed unto us the the word of reconciliation" (which is the Gospel) 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Because of the victorious work of Christ, God is at peace with us and the world, Colossians 1:20. When God looks at us all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ, "For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3. We who are saved have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10, and are awaiting his return.

You deny the Gospel and teach that sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways!
 

Samie

New member
You deny the Gospel and teach that sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways!
Not speaking for Robert, but there are some among them who will perish, Christ Himself said:

KJV Matthew 8:11-12 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Quite clear from the above verses, that from the kingdom of heaven, there are children of the kingdom who will be cast out into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Elsewhere in the bible, Jesus described this place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth as a furnace of fire; in Revelation it is called the lake of fire.

The reason for their perishing is non-compliance with the instructions of Jesus: Repent or perish.

Repentance is change of mind for that which is good. Instead of doing evil, do good. IOW, overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). Christ assures us He will NOT blot out overcomers from the book of life and will be seated with Him in His throne as He also overcame and sat down with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:5, 21). All not blotted out will be allowed entry into heaven (Rev 21:27); all blotted out will have their portion in the lake of fire (Rev 20:15)

Any comment or objection, b57? Thanks, brother.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Hi Robert;

You asked: Do you believe and understand the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ?

First, you must know the gospel that Jesus preached, for unless you know the gospel that He preached then neither can you believe NOR understand it, do you agree?

The gospel of Christ is the gospel that He Himself preached as recorded in the Bible, NOT what you wanted Him to have preached. Now, can you show from Scriptures the gospel that Jesus preached?

If Yes, then please show it, and then we discuss.

If you are not able to, just say so, and I'll show it to you and then we discuss.

Thank you, brother.

Jesus did not preach the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. He left that up to the apostles. The Gospel that Jesus preached was the "Kingdom Gospel" It was the good news that the King had arrived.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Did you know the only holiday early christians celebrated was the baptism of Jesus?

Oh wait.. is that different from the topic? :carryon:

I thought that it was the resurrection of Jesus. These threads never stay on topic.
 

Samie

New member
Jesus did not preach the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. He left that up to the apostles.
So why did Paul say that he preached the gospel of Christ? see Rom 15:19; 2 Cor 10:14. Is the gospel of Christ NOT the gospel that Christ Himself preached?

The Gospel that Jesus preached was the "Kingdom Gospel" It was the good news that the King had arrived.
Can you please cite even one single verse that simply hints at what you said, so that readers of this thread can see for themselves the basis of your statement?

Thank you.
 

Samie

New member
Yes he does, and while quoting scripture verses which he has no understanding of, because he's alienated from the Life of God Eph. 4:18; 1 Cor. 2:14.

~~~
I think Robert is not interested in discussing with you both just yet.

But just in case you're willing to, why not test the waters in this post?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
So why did Paul say that he preached the gospel of Christ? see Rom 15:19; 2 Cor 10:14. Is the gospel of Christ NOT the gospel that Christ Himself preached?

Can you please cite even one single verse that simply hints at what you said, so that readers of this thread can see for themselves the basis of your statement?

Thank you.


The Gospel of Christ is the Gospel that Jesus revealed to Paul in Galatians 1:11,12. It is the same Gospel that Peter preached on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:14-47. Paul's Gospel was more indepth than what Peter preached. It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
You could have a happier Thanksgiving if you would scrap your Calvinist God and trust in Christ alone to save you.

You teach that sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins. So you don't believe that Christ death alone saved anybody.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Salvation is not yours or anyone's unless it is received by faith, John 1:12.

See, I can see right through your phoniness, talking about Jesus alone saves. You don't believe that since you believe that sinners Christ lived and died for are going to perish in their sins anyways, lost!
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
See, I can see right through your phoniness, talking about Jesus alone saves. You don't believe that since you believe that sinners Christ lived and died for are going to perish in their sins anyways, lost!


Yes, you are going to perish in your sins, because you have not received Christ as your savior, John 1:12.
 
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