(Luke 19:44) They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
The above happened in 70AD.
ECT Do those who believe MAD have no problem disregarding what Jesus actually taught ?
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(Luke 19:44) They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
The above happened in 70AD.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The reason for cultivating the 70 was so that by the time of Pentecost and the Spirit, there would be about 200 people ready to go out with the message. Mt 10's instructions are similar to and sometimes repeated in Mt 24 because they were to head out to preach everywhere before the day of judgement came. The day of total judgement was thought to have been 'right after' (Mt 24:29) the destruction of Jerusalem. The DofJ is taught in Mt24A because they wanted to know why he had declared Jerusalem desolate in ch 23--or at least what that would look like.
Everything Paul says about that generation is framed that way, without any thought of delay between the DoJ and the final judgement. It is only in others that we learn of allowances for delay (Mark's parable of 4 possible return times, Matt's 'only the Father knows', 2 Peter 3). Notice that Peter: 1, validates Paul's letters but 2, also says there are things hard to understand--in the same chapter in which he is explaining why the final judgement has not yet happened!.
Paul is confident, twice, in saying that the whole earth has been reached in that generation, which was the goal he understood he was supposed to reach. I assume he adopted how the Roman world viewed things at the time, as was the same in Luke (Acts 2--the languages from the 'whole world.')
Israel's options: either join the mission of God, putting all your possessions into funding it (Acts 5) OR you stay there and fight Rome in a delusional messianic battle. The appeal to Israel along these lines is found in many places in Luke (Paul's teaching), in Rom 10 about the mission Israel should be doing, Rom 11. The horrible falling away after the son of perdition in Thess letters is about the leader of the Jewish revolt and his use of the temple. He is the figure leading the rebellion mentioned in Dan 8:13, the rebellion that desolates Israel, 9:27. Those are all events dated by those prophetic passages.
The letter to Hebrews tells that generation of Israel it is like that old generation in the wilderness that needs to listen to the voice providing them rest, not the disaster of sin. Otherwise their land will be burnt.
The problem you are having is the evacuation of historical reality by Dispensationalism. It is a system that is full of factors and contingencies completely outside of the apostles thinking and teaching, such as restoring a theocratic state to Israel. Those factors are unnaturally glommed-on to a few texts, mainly Mt 23's 'until you sing blessed is he who comes...' and Rom 11's 'all Israel saved.' They believe this is 'rightly dividing' the Bible, which is bad English for 'rightly handling' the Bible in light of ignorant people who want to scrap over terms and words from the Law instead of using the Bible to administer church leaders and people effectively, I Tim 2. D'ism started in the 1800s when there was a flourish of off-base cults with major delusions at the center. They drifted way off the center of the Bible.
The odd thing about this is that one pastor who stuck with the historical view (no glommed-on 2P2P type theories) dealt a massive blow to the leading atheist writer of the day (I'm referring to Pastor Holford's ministry vs Thomas Payne's attempt to end all religion). This was early 1800, and it is fascinating to note what happens next: uniformitarianism AND several bizarre cults start up, including D'ism, but none of them maintain the grip on history and the solid connection between the NT and the destruction of Israel that is all through it.
Which makes tragic sense: once you cut the NT loose from that, all the awful beliefs of those systems take over. Futurism did it by thousands of reps that Mt 24A was about events X000 years in the future, and by cultivating the resurgence of Judaism's interest in its own trinity--God / torah / land in the 1800s. In a cultic way, and out of nowwhere, there was now a "Christian" and even "evangelical" movement that had almost no understanding of NT history or how the NT used the OT to maximize the accomplishment of Christ. Which means they read the OT the EXACT SAME WAY AS THE RESURGENT JUDAISM!!! D'ism has had no effect on the modern world that would subvert it from uniformitarianism; it simply burps up a 'prediction' about once a decade, which comes and goes, and the public sneers.
Aren't you being a wee bit vague? Can you give exact Scripture verses that back your premise? Or, is it all speculation mixed with historical background and commentary?
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That's a very good post (except for the delay after the DofJ).
Other than the delay after the DofJ, you're spot on.
Where you or any of your immediate family or acquaintances there to witness this event? Does the Bible make mention of 70AD? If so, can you post where?
More desperation by a MADist.
No matter how much you guys try, you can't rewrite history, and you can't fight the truth of the Bible.
The absurdity of the heretical preterist idea that the 2nd Coming of Christ has already occurred is seen in these verses:
Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Acts 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
According to these verses, Christ will not return until Israel, as a nation, accepts Him as the promised Messiah. This has never happened. The real truth of the Bible is that EVERYTHING in the Book of Revelation is still future. All Prophecy involves Israel and, since Israel, as a nation, has not been God's people since Acts 28:28, no prophecy has been fulfilled during the past 1956 years.
Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Acts 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
According to these verses, Christ will not return until Israel, as a nation, accepts Him as the promised Messiah. This has never happened. The real truth of the Bible is that EVERYTHING in the Book of Revelation is still future. All Prophecy involves Israel and, since Israel, as a nation, has not been God's people since Acts 28:28, no prophecy has been fulfilled during the past 1956 years.
:chuckle:
Right Divider
Body part
Yes, that is true. But what YOU wrote before was NOT true (that the other books are NOT FOR us).
Another true statement. You're on a roll Tet.
ALL the Bible is FOR US, but not all the Bible is TO US.
You've yet to prove that Simon the tanner was a believer to whom that command might apply.
NOBODY ever said that this was a perpetual command. In the ACTS 9 time-frame, God started something different. So if they had homes and possession after that, so be it. That is fully compatible with MAD.
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I did not say any thing about that, just this simple truth that you seem incapable of grasping.
Mary is Jesus' mother ONLY in regards to His HUMANITY and NOT in regards to His DEITY!
Well, the truth is, you're a Preterist who believes Christ already returned to earth in 70AD. You also submit that all the Biblical prophesies came to a conclusion in that same year,70AD. It's difficult, if not impossible to argue with someone who isn't being logical. So, why try?
As a Catholic believer, Cruc has to go along with the Catholic teachings.
I'd love to see one of the MAD haters explain to us why they think we're wrong and they are right? Do they have faith in the Grace Gospel as preached by The Apostle Paul?
TeT actually is a waste of time and effort. He's totally incorrigible.
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I try to keep it simple for these 1st graders, but they still go off on their tangential rants.
No they don't. It has become fashionable to go against MAD on TOL. It's like a badge of honor that gets attention. They know MAD is right but they think it's more fun to refute it. I pray for their poor lost souls.
As usual, you Darby followers are clueless when it comes to the OT.
If you understood what "blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord" meant, you wouldn't be so confused.
They are poor lost souls.
:rotfl:
Gotta love Bullingerites.
(Rev 1:1) The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.....
In order to be a Bullingerite, you have to make the word "soon" mean 1,900+ years and still counting.