Dispensationalism

[clefty]

Can you name names instead of making broad generalisations? For example, I am a Christian, but I don't deny that the Sabbath was made for man or believe that Jesus overturned the law.

Name names? You mean of posters here on TOL or name Christian denominations who consider Sabbath an abolished OT relic or if really MAD not ever having applied to them...?

Since you dont believe the jewish false witness that He overturned the law do you “keep the seventh day Sabbath”?

How about the other 4 requirements...including only eating clean meat...as killing a swine properly and draining its blood does NOT make it kosher to eat...ya dig?

Do you not let anyone judge your sabbath or festival keeping but the body of Christ?

Really dont mean to be speaking so generally but I rarely find 10/10 believers here...

usually it is 9/10s which robs Him of worship so that’s 8/10s...and then they even claim He abolished the Sabbath so thats 7/10s as that is a LIE...and a lawless god is a different counterfeit false god...so 6/10s...

 

[Jacob]

The old covenant with “blood” Israel...which by second temple times was mainly/only consisted of jews...the rest of the tribes were gone...but ONLY AFTER having been a mighty nation a peoples like the sand of the sea...thus His side of the contract was indeed fulfilled THEY WERE A MIGHTY NATION...and yet the jews made NO effort to be a blessing to the other Nations...or allowing goyim into their fellowship...and well finally even killed their husband thus death did them part...and freeing themselves of that covenant...

His “it is finished” at the cross was His teaching and demonstrating the “new covenant” which was now WITH HIM and happily again to WHOSOEVER believeth because Yah so loved the WORLD and not just jews...

What else was abolished was the curse of not being restored to Yah and HIS WAYS...but now THROUGH HIM that restoration was possible...but only through His new agreement He demonstrated and taught and SEALED with His death...NO CHANGES...

Now ALL can through the Son be fully restored to Him the Father and His WAY and to what it would have been like before the detour of sin...

Is why we are to practice being MORE LIKE HIM less like the fallen world...to get ready for eternal life with HIM...

Animal sacrifices and the shedding blood its symbol of DEATH was no longer needed as Yah was finally pleased and satisfied and now His people are covered again by innocent blood that of His only begotten Son...those that believed and obeyed covered themselves in that blood and will be PASSED OVER again...that final judgement...

That of course pleases Him so He of course says “well done good and faithful servent enter in to your reward”

So the debt or bill was paid for {abolished} but the OT prices remain...the Law its ministration of death pointing out sin....we have a NEW HIGH PRIEST a new PAYOR and a way to pay...

So the need for blood, temple, levitical priests, all obsolete...but the temple was just a divine stage an opera of righteousness...a theatre of teaching of holiness...and it has show times...these show times remain as reminders of Him HIS WAYS...that calendar HE MADE remains and we benefit from celebrating these show times of divine appointments...yearly AND WEEKLY...

So the calendar and the Law remains as they are ETERNAL...but the contract with “blood” israel is obsolete...the new Israel is very much like His first wife...His taste in woman doesnt change...ha

hope that helps a bit...

Actually, if you know of the Law you can share it. If you have no regard for the Law you might be trying to make up a debt. Why did Paul say that he died to the Law through the Law?

Galatians 2:19 NASB - "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

 

[Stripe]

Name names? You mean of posters here on TOL?

That's who you're talking to.

Since you dont believe the jewish false witness that He overturned the law do you “keep the seventh day Sabbath”?

No.

Is that the law in your country?

 

[clefty]

That's who you're talking to.

No.

Is that the law in your country?

Nope...live in a country where we give unto Caesar what is Caesars and to Yah what is Yah’s...

Sadly though that freedom to worship is going to be reduced...Alabama recently voted to put the 10 commandments on all state properties...the irony as they keep 9/10 of it...if that

And as the world collapses or climate change increases I imagine man will all turn back to God and seek to worship Him...their traditional ways...

That will also be legislated through laws...we already have Sunday blue law designed to keep it “holy”

There is precedence:

https://youtu.be/dt4LIzjoZqg

But why if you dont believe the Sabbath was overturned do you not keep it?

 

[Stripe]

Nope.

So what's the problem then?

But why if you dont believe the Sabbath was overturned do you not keep it?

I'm not Jewish. :idunno:

As ... climate change increases.

:rotfl:

 

[clefty]

So what's the problem then?

oh nothing...move along then...nothing for you to see here..

I'm not Jewish. :idunno:

you’re not following Him either then...

prolly think marriage is jewish...just for jews...as it too was instituted the same time Sabbath was...

:rotfl:

I know right?

Tell it to these guys:

“Ecological conversion also means dealing with time differently, both as an individual and as a society. We need to rediscover the “rhythm of time the alternation between work and rest with Sunday as the commonly shared weekly day of rest.”
https://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20151202/opinion/Our-common-home.594237

http://www.comece.eu/european-day-for-a-work-free-sunday-call-for-action

Because

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44424572

 

[clefty]

Matt 23:13 “Woe to you...You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to”

 

[Stripe]

oh nothing...move along then...nothing for you to see here..

Hold on a minute, sunshine. You made an accusation of all Christians in general, which implicates me. I do not believe as you characterized them to. So either come up with some names or retract the accusation. :up:

Move along. :chuckle:

"Do you know who I am?"

You’re not following Him either then...

:AMR:

Because I'm not Jewish (that I know of)?

prolly think marriage is jewish...just for jews...as it too was instituted the same time Sabbath was...

We have laws regarding marriage in my country. :idunno:

They say "one man and one woman."

 

[clefty]

Hold on a minute, sunshine.

oh you are fun...

You made an accusation of all Christians in general, which implicates me. I do not believe as you characterized them to. So either come up with some names or retract the accusation. :up:

You said yourself He didnt overturn the law...and yet

Move along. :chuckle:

"Do you know who I am?"

yes...not a follower of Him His way...

:AMR:

Because I'm not Jewish (that I know of)?

He said it Himself...Sabbath was made for MAN...so not just for jews...

You a man?

We have laws regarding marriage in my country. :idunno:

Your state came up with marriage?

so you married just in the eyes of the state? And just because of its laws regarding marriage?

Maybe you reject woman? They were made for man too...

They say "one man and one woman."

maybe you not marry then...

 

[Stripe]

oh you are fun...

You said yourself He didnt overturn the law...and yet

Perhaps we are talking past each other. What do you mean when you speak of the law?

yes...not a follower of Him His way...

Why would you say something like that? :AMR:

 

[clefty]

Perhaps we are talking past each other. What do you mean when you speak of the law?

Perhaps...

what I speak of is what life was like before Eve disobeyed...

Describe for me that life and I will show you the life it will be again when it is on earth as it is in heaven...finally and again...an obedient life...obedient to His Eternal Law

Why would you say something like that? :AMR:

Cuz I suspect you aren’t living AS HE did...loving as He loved...keeping 10/10...

Just checking your fruits to reveal their roots...

Maybe I am wrong...wouldn’t be the first or last time...ha

 

[Stripe]

Perhaps...

what I speak of is what life was like before Eve disobeyed...

There was law before sin.

 

[Stripe]

I define the law as those things that are not contrary to God's will.

 

[clefty]

There was law before sin.

Sure and of course...is why I asked you to describe that life and you would see which laws were being kept...duh


but it was revealed when there was sin...to point it out

One law was dont eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil...and well pow now they got kicked out...

Then more and more Laws were revealed...Abel sacrificed and was accepted...Cain murdered him...Noah was found blameless against what standard?...Abraham obeyed charge commandments statutes Laws...did those Laws vary fo contrary divide the house from later laws?...Joseph rejecting Potiphar’s wife refused to SIN against His God...

So we agree His Laws are eternal...so...which ones and do any contradict or replace or cancel another?

Was there a time adultery was ok? And then not? How about worshipping another god?

Did some keep one day and others rest another day?...or is it ONE LAW for native and foreigner alike...

 

[clefty]

I define the law as those things that are not contrary to God's will.

So you keep the seventh day Sabbath or is that the only 1 of the 10 that is for jews...despite clear instruction it is actually the only one which includes the strangers...the irony

His will includes you eat only clean meat...as was affirmed by the Jerusalem council which James concluded that there were 4 things expected of the crowding goyim to hear Moses read in every city on EVERY SABBATH...so I guess that’s 5 things...nothing there about meeting the next day their “Lord’s Day” or wed night prayer meetings on mars hill...of these 3 dealt with dietary kosher laws...goyim needed reminding that improper killing or NOT DRAINING the blood made even clean meat UNCLEAN...as did offering clean meet to an ikon

As false worship and unclean lifestyle is being contrary to God’s will ya dig?

 

[JudgeRightly]

So you keep the seventh day Sabbath or is that the only 1 of the 10 that is for jews...despite clear instruction it is actually the only one which includes the strangers...the irony

His will includes you eat only clean meat...as was affirmed by the Jerusalem council which James concluded that there were 4 things expected of the crowding goyim to hear Moses read in every city on EVERY SABBATH...so I guess that’s 5 things...nothing there about meeting the next day their “Lord’s Day” or wed night prayer meetings on mars hill...of these 3 dealt with dietary kosher laws...goyim needed reminding that improper killing or NOT DRAINING the blood made even clean meat UNCLEAN...as did offering clean meet to an ikon

As false worship and unclean lifestyle is being contrary to God’s will ya dig?

So, then, how do you explain Paul saying that it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols, which is "unclean"?

Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak.For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols?And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. - 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians8:1-13&version=NKJV

 

[clefty]

So, then, how do you explain Paul saying that it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols, which is "unclean"?

Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak.For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols?And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. - 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians8:1-13&version=NKJV

Wow just wow...your rebellious heart is in full and constant display...with disciples like these...Judas at least knew Who to kiss not sure you would recognize Him...

Or maybe you would because He would NOT cause the weaker faith to stumble...NOT do ANYTHING that might cause the “WHATEVER” or “DO WHAT THOU WHILST” mentality yours already has...

Paul would refrain from even eating meat if necessary NOT to make a brother stumble but you and yours in here are going to claim Sunday Ham is ok...does FAITH make void the LAW? CERTAINLY NOT

Paul is clear...1 Cor 10:28 But if someone says to you “this has been offered in sacrifice” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, AND FOR THE SAKE OF CONSCIENCE...NOT YOURS...HIS...Paul concludes give no offense...

Bro please...your friend is alcoholic and struggling with his AA...you gonna take him to a pub?

Paul also didnt specify that this was a new norm or standard as 1 Cor 5:11...if he is a brother and wicked dont even eat with him...but put away yourselves...

Don’t judge unbelievers or the world but believers who claim to be followers and disciples of Him HIS WAY but then post on and on ad nauseam about “LAW ABOLISHED....DO WHAT THOU WHILST WE FREE”...those we do judge...

remember? let no one judge you your sabbath keeping but the BOC...(body of Christ)

Your idea of fellowship or hospitality of these CIVILIZED and CULTURED people is horribly warped...

You think a Demetrius would run into a synagogue with swine meat for a potluck meal after hearing about Moses and One resurrected on a Sabbath?

Or how about if Demetrius invited a Moishe to lunch with him...you think he would prepare pork chops? People, believe it or not, are by in large civil and good hosts...sensitive to their visitors needs and desires...

Paul makes clear 1 Cor 10:27 if an unbeliever invites you to dinner AND YOU DESIRE TO GO...well do you really think anyone would desire to go to a place where the host WISHED YOU TO GO TO HELL or MESS YOU UP...I kindly refuse frat parties invites for that reason

Of course even an unbeliever would change the menu for one he invited...he would NOT serve PORK to a believer as fellowship is grown in good spirit and trust...

Again imagine inviting a friend to a beer pong party...but he is an alcoholic ...would you plow him with drinks? Really mess him up for laughs? Why would he desire to accept your invite...

Or how about food allergy or diabetic...

“Let’s stuff little Jimmie with shell fish because he is allergic! HAHAHA”...wow...seriously?

But no over and over again with your type...you rebellious stiffnecked uncircumcised hearts...”what about this...or what about that...so ummm how do you explain this then”

ONLY FELLOW CHRISTIANS CHALLENGE ME...I am invited to pagans or Buddhists or muslims or even jews they make NO FUSS about my dietary beliefs...but around christians its...but but but Paul said so...and MUH tradition fuh fuh fuh

Christians claim to be disciples and follow Him HIS WAY...they are adamant they wish to be MMORE LIKE HIM and even ask “WWJD?” everything...But wow DON’T they ever...


Give NO OFFENSE...even pagan civility is easy hospitable and forgiving...NOT being a stumbling block is eternal

FLEE EVIL...idolatry or immorality or impurity...

It’s not what goes into a man that makes him impure it is that inside he already is impure if he permits that which is unclean inside...or desires that invite that makes him impure...

Shall the weaker brother perish on account of my fleshy appetites? The more ignorant poster cuz I wanna fit in?

No...I say flee evil...wear running shoes...but not Nikes those Nicolaitans He hates...LOL

 

[comingfrom]

Hi Stripe.

There was law before sin.

Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4

 

[Stripe]

Sure and of course...is why I asked you to describe that life and you would see which laws were being kept...duh


but it was revealed when there was sin...to point it out

One law was dont eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil...and well pow now they got kicked out...

Then more and more Laws were revealed...Abel sacrificed and was accepted...Cain murdered him...Noah was found blameless against what standard?...Abraham obeyed charge commandments statutes Laws...did those Laws vary fo contrary divide the house from later laws?...Joseph rejecting Potiphar’s wife refused to SIN against His God...

So we agree His Laws are eternal...so...which ones and do any contradict or replace or cancel another?

Was there a time adultery was ok? And then not? How about worshipping another god?

Did some keep one day and others rest another day?...or is it ONE LAW for native and foreigner alike...

I don't know what you'r talking about anymore. :idunno:

 

[Stripe]

So you keep the seventh day Sabbath or is that the only 1 of the 10 that is for jews...despite clear instruction it is actually the only one which includes the strangers...the irony

His will includes you eat only clean meat...as was affirmed by the Jerusalem council which James concluded that there were 4 things expected of the crowding goyim to hear Moses read in every city on EVERY SABBATH...so I guess that’s 5 things...nothing there about meeting the next day their “Lord’s Day” or wed night prayer meetings on mars hill...of these 3 dealt with dietary kosher laws...goyim needed reminding that improper killing or NOT DRAINING the blood made even clean meat UNCLEAN...as did offering clean meet to an ikon

As false worship and unclean lifestyle is being contrary to God’s will ya dig?

The rules can change.