Discussion thread for: Battle Royale XIII

[The Graphite]

I wonder how long it will be before anyone gets a pair of nuts and responds to my argument with some substance?

Just as soon as you learn basic arithmetic.

Perhaps never? :think:

Maybe you blinked and missed it.



Politically, John McCain is the best friend Obama ever had! He helps Obama defeat Keyes in all but about a half dozen states! Keyes could have a landslide victory if not for McCain stealing his thunder. Continued genocide and socialism, here we come!

Obama's new favorite quote of the day...
"The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Clete, since when do we base our moral decisions on what the wicked God-haters want? Your standard of righteousness on this issue is completely inside-out.

What is your standard? What Obama wants? What millions of other (mostly ignorant) voters want?

 

[The Graphite]

Was I right, Clete? Will you take Kang over Kodos?

39 lashes is sure a lot better than 40, you gotta admit...

 

[nicholsmom]

Which parties have been in charge? Which party appointed the most judges to the supreme court?

Define "in charge" - a simple majority is insufficient to effect any substantive change. That is basic civics, isn't it?

 

[nicholsmom]

Politically, John McCain is the best friend Obama ever had! He helps Obama defeat Keyes in all but about a half dozen states! Keyes could have a landslide victory if not for McCain stealing his thunder. Continued genocide and socialism, here we come!

Seriously, I worry about you. You should see your doctor about your psych meds, bc they're not working - you are totally out of touch with reality, man. :nono:

 

[Clete]

The Graphite,

You are one single post away from my ignore list.

You have one last chance to stop ignoring every point I make and actually respond to my argument(s) in some rational way or I will simply blow you off as an intellectually dishonest waste of time and never read another post you write on this topic.

You choose.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Just Tom]

Wow just caught up on the debate and the Graphite team is killing NM and WF..

Wow you answer a question and then take back your answer..

It shows you don't even understand your own position.

The idea presented that voting is inherently morally neutral is just so foolish I can't believe it..

You have lost hands down and after the first post I thought you all could win..:chuckle:

Nice Job Graphite!!:thumb:

You presented some arguments that are awesome which I will use in the future..

 

[Clete]

Seriously, I worry about you. You should see your doctor about your psych meds, bc they're not working - you are totally out of touch with reality, man. :nono:

What you say in jest, is precisely what I am beginning to believe is actually the case!

The abject intellectual dishonesty is simply astounding! I think Bob Enyart (the pastor and/or mentor of most of those here who agree with The Graphite on this issue) would be ashamed to read the things that have been said on this thread (and others) in response to clear and rationally presented objections to their position. They are certainly not following his example and I am beginning to believe that we will never get a rational response from anyone unless Bob himself decides to address it personally.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

Wow just caught up on the debate and the Graphite team is killing NM and WF..

Wow you answer a question and then take back your answer..

It shows you don't even understand your own position.

The idea presented that voting is inherently morally neutral is just so foolish I can't believe it..

You have lost hands down and after the first post I thought you all could win..:chuckle:

Nice Job Graphite!!:thumb:

You presented some arguments that are awesome which I will use in the future..

Ordinarily, in the context of the debate itself, I'd agree with you but the singular point made in the most recent post concerning Obama being helped by third party voting is the only point in the whole debate that matters (i.e. every other point made is not only obvious but irrelevant). If The Graphite and GodsfreeWill fail to rationally deal with that singular point, they will have failed to make their case and will lose by default. (i.e. They are arguing the affirmative case that voting for McCain is immoral and thus the burden of proof is on them.)

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Delmar]

When you can explain to me how voting for a non-viable candidate doesn't help the worse of two evils then I'll accept this as valid. Until then I will maintain that you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Obama's new favorite quote of the day...
"The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Resting in Him,
Clete

Clete
I do agree with you that there is no way Keyes will win this election! I further agree that Obama is more likely to win because I won't vote for McCain! I simply disagree that McCain is a less evil choice than Obama, and I have explained to you on more than one occasion, why I believe McCain will do more damage to the nation than Obama will. Simply put, a wolf in sheep's clothing (Republican Party) is far more dangerous than a wolf in the open field!

 

[Just Tom]

Ordinarily, in the context of the debate itself, I'd agree with you but the singular point made in the most recent post concerning Obama being helped by third party voting is the only point in the whole debate that matters (i.e. every other point made is not only obvious but irrelevant). If The Graphite and GodsfreeWill fail to rationally deal with that singular point, they will have failed to make their case and will lose by default. (i.e. They are arguing the affirmative case that voting for McCain is immoral and thus the burden of proof is on them.)

Resting in Him,
Clete

Sorry but it isn't.
That is the boogey man argument. If all of those who KNOW McCain is evil but will vote for him anyway would change their vote and check off Keyes then there would be real progress. What you are advocating is to keep doing the same thing in hopes of getting a different result. That my friend is insanity...

McCain is a liar and a humanist. I loved the you tube clip which clearly showed how superior Keyes was to both of them..

McCain.. "This is a private family matter" that is the same argument that his homo chief of staff makes for legitimizing his behavior..

If McCain is elected just like Obama, Homos will be put in positions of authority which they are not qualified to be, and the same exact number of children will die..

The only difference will be that those who know better or should know better will be the ones who put the evil man in office and they will feel that they did a righteous thing which will harm them...

 

[chickenman]

Nor has the Democratic Party. Nor has any third party. Nor have your votes nor mine.

nm,
You need to re-think this, then go back and edit it with "EDIT: Sorry, I wasn't thinking when I posted this."

 

[Clete]

Sorry but it isn't.
That is the boogey man argument. If all of those who KNOW McCain is evil but will vote for him anyway would change their vote and check off Keyes then there would be real progress. What you are advocating is to keep doing the same thing in hopes of getting a different result. That my friend is insanity...

On the contrary. I do not expect different results with McCain. In fact, I expect that little or nothing would change under McCain. Obama on the other hand wants to completely redefine our country.

McCain is a liar and a humanist. I loved the you tube clip which clearly showed how superior Keyes was to both of them..

Irrelevant. Everyone knows McCain is evil and everyone also knows that Keyes is entirely incapable of winning the election.

McCain.. "This is a private family matter" that is the same argument that his homo chief of staff makes for legitimizing his behavior..

If McCain is elected just like Obama, Homos will be put in positions of authority which they are not qualified to be, and the same exact number of children will die..

The only difference will be that those who know better or should know better will be the ones who put the evil man in office and they will feel that they did a righteous thing which will harm them...

If Keyes gets a sufficient number of votes we will have him to thank for getting Obama as president just like we have Ross Perot to thank for Bill Clinton.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

Clete
I do agree with you that there is no way Keyes will win this election! I further agree that Obama is more likely to win because I won't vote for McCain! I simply disagree that McCain is a less evil choice than Obama, and I have explained to you on more than one occasion, why I believe McCain will do more damage to the nation than Obama will. Simply put, a wolf in sheep's clothing (Republican Party) is far more dangerous than a wolf in the open field!

Can you point me to the post(s) where you explained why you believe McCain will do more damage to the nation than Obama will? I don't recall seeing it.

 

[Delmar]

Can you point me to the post(s) where you explained why you believe McCain will do more damage to the nation than Obama will? I don't recall seeing it.

OK, I just found one of them

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1859178&postcount=119

I went through this with you in the other thread, but I will try to do a better job explaining.
If McCain is elected every liberal idea he proposes will sail through both houses of congress. The Republicans will vote for them because he is their guy. The Democrats will vote for every liberal idea because they are liberal!

If Obama is elected it only takes 40 senators to oppose any liberal idea and stop it cold!

In short, if Obama wins the train slows down and most likley turns at the crossing in 4 years.
If McCain wins the train is headed for eviltown, with jet rockets!

 

[Delmar]

On the contrary. I do not expect different results with McCain. In fact, I expect that little or nothing would change under McCain. Obama on the other hand wants to completely redefine our country.


Irrelevant. Everyone knows McCain is evil and everyone also knows that Keyes is entirely incapable of winning the election.


If Keyes gets a sufficient number of votes we will have him to thank for getting Obama as president just like we have Ross Perot to thank for Bill Clinton.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Just as we have Ralph Nader to thank for GW Bush, and for the fact that the Democrats have done a hard left to satisfy their base!

 

[Delmar]

What you say in jest, is precisely what I am beginning to believe is actually the case!

The abject intellectual dishonesty is simply astounding! I think Bob Enyart (the pastor and/or mentor of most of those here who agree with The Graphite on this issue) would be ashamed to read the things that have been said on this thread (and others) in response to clear and rationally presented objections to their position. They are certainly not following his example and I am beginning to believe that we will never get a rational response from anyone unless Bob himself decides to address it personally.

Resting in Him,
Clete

I understand that you haven't agreed with my responses but I would very much like you to admit that they have been consistent and rational.

 

[WandererInFog]

Just as we have Ralph Nader to thank for GW Bush, and for the fact that the Democrats have done a hard left to satisfy their base!

That isn't at all why the shift has occurred. The tiny fringe that voted for Nader in 2000 is going to vote for Nader again this year. When included in polls he is currently running well ahead of all the other 3rd party and independent candidates with 2-3% (essentially identical to the 2.74% of the vote he received in 2000). The Democrats have been able to successfully move further to the left, but it's because the country as a whole has shifted further in that direction.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The simple fact of the matter is you live in an evil country that is going to elect and evil man as President. The decision you have to make is simple. Are you going to make it harder for the most evil candidate to win or are you going to either not vote at all or else cast a vote for a man who hasn't the slightest chance of winning thereby making it easier for the most evil man to win?

So, your premise is that good cannot win so we must support evil?

Just how evil must a candidate be before you stop supporting him?

Are you willing to vote for a candidate who is in favor of homosexual marriage to stop a candidate who opposes traditional marriage?
Are you willing to vote for a candidate who is in favor of interring Jews in concentration camps to stop a candidate who is in favor of exterminating Jews?

You can fight fire with fire, but you cannot fight evil with evil.

 

[Delmar]

That isn't at all why the shift has occurred.

Sure it is.

The tiny fringe that voted for Nader in 2000 is going to vote for Nader again this year. When included in polls he is currently running well ahead of all the other 3rd party and independent candidates with 2-3%

So why are people whining about me voting for Alan Keyes (if I could) since my vote for Keyes would be offset by someones vote for Nader?

(essentially identical to the 2.74% of the vote he received in 2000). The Democrats have been able to successfully move further to the left, but it's because the country as a whole has shifted further in that direction.

What do you credit the shift to the left to?

 

[WandererInFog]

Sure it is.

And you would demonstrate this how. If the move to the left was to pick up the Nader voters, then it failed as they're still voting for Nader.

So why are people whining about me voting for Alan Keyes (if I could) since my vote for Keyes would be offset by someones vote for Nader?

Because it doesn't really work that way. People aren't elected by the popular vote. If you're living in a state where one candidate is going to win by a huge margin, then no, of course it doesn't really affect things if you vote for a 3rd party of independent candidate. However, the the vast majority of those supporting Keyes on this site happen to be situated in state (Colorado) where does have the potential to make a significant difference.

What do you credit the shift to the left to?

It's a lot of factors, with downturn in the economy being one obvious example. However, the biggest ones are large scale demographic shifts. A couple of the big examples would be the growth of the Latino population which trends strongly liberal, more of the Millenial generation reaching voting age, and the rarely talked about but huge shifts in the religious makeup of the US (The category of "Secular/non-religious" is fastest growing religious demographic in the United States, now making up 20%+ of the US population).