Direct assault on Satan (Evil's.<(I)> Naughty List)

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

While I agree with most everything here, you have not demonstrated a "faith only" rebuke of my point. The entire passage of James solidifies a faith/works combination. The words Christ solidify a faith/works combination.

I think where we disagree is a viewpoint/perspective. I will try to demonstrate my side. If you have faith, you will do works, right? So you have a faith/works view. If you believe we are commanded to witness, then you believe in a faith/works combination. The issue, usually, with those who hold a faith alone doctrine, is they either 1.) don't want to be classed as any kind of believer in "works," due to negative connotations (which their system has placed on works systems). 2.) they operate on an either/or system, where no two modus operandi can be true, so they consciously negate one half, creating a hypocritical paradoxical system.

This is easily demonstrated by you quote "love. That's it." God/Christ is Love. He is also Mercy. ButHe is also Justice. Many want to leave this attribute out, because it demonstrates the reality of punishment and hell, the necessity of penance, and (the pride killer) that not everyone can be right.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Bottom line...

Ecclesiastes 7:20

There is only One... Righteous. Repentance is knowing this in our soul and having "faith" in His work. Love is something we screw up too! We screw up! This is why we count ourselves dead... daily. It's He... not "we".

Him alone! Any other "Way" and we are sunk. Does that clarify matters?

The gospel is simple. To add any conditions to it is to turn "the Father's House" (Jesus)... into a den of thieves. That is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. James 2 says this...

James 2

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

....... in other words... we are all forgiven sinners. He alone was, is and forever will be sinless. We never forget this as...

(Titus 2:13)

James chapter 2 is simply a rehash of this...

Spoiler

23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[c] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’

30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

And... this

Spoiler

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

[God's Truth]

Some people just refuse to believe what is so plain in Scripture because of their preconceived ideas.

Preconceived ideas? You mean like the idea we got from God and the beginning of time? God has told us to believe and obey always.

They say that faith is not enough in order to be saved. But here Peter makes it plain that salvation is a direct result of believing:

Scripture does not nullify each other, just as a statement by anyone of the apostles does not nullify what another apostle says, just like Peter does not say one thing and then something else about the truth.

Faith is what we need, but it must be living faith. What makes faith dead and what makes faith living? James explains it simply and clearly.

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

James asks can such a faith save. No, such a faith without right action cannot save.

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James says faith by itself is dead.

James 2:20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

He even says it is foolish that you do not understand that truth and he offers evidence.

James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

He uses Abraham’s faith being TESTED by what he did, and he explains how that makes it a living faith.

Peter must have heard about the same ignorant and unstable way of thinking, for that is what he calls it in 1 Peter 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Then Peter warns us to obey.

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

In fact, read all of 2 Peter Chapter 3. You will see the teaching of faith alone totally taught against.

"...for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls" (1 Pet.1:9).

…and look at what Peter says about works, he says you CALL on a Father who judges each person’s work IMPARTIALLY. That means you cannot say you believed therefore your disobedience should not be held against you.

1 Peter 1:17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

Even Paul whom you misunderstand says to works out our salvation with trembling and fear.

Let us back it up in time further, all the people that Peter is speaking to about their faith and their salvation---they first heard and accepted the gospel message, the gospel message is of Jesus dying for the sins we repent of, and how his blood washes those sins away.

1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin.

Have you forgotten that Peter is the one who said, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”?

Acts 5:32 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Preconceived ideas? You mean like the idea we got from God and the beginning of time?

Spoiler

God has told us to believe and obey always.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Scripture does not nullify each other, just as a statement by anyone of the apostles does not nullify what another apostle says, just like Peter does not say one thing and then something else about the truth.

Faith is what we need, but it must be living faith. What makes faith dead and what makes faith living? James explains it simply and clearly.

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

James asks can such a faith save. No, such a faith without right action cannot save.

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James says faith by itself is dead.

James 2:20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

He even says it is foolish that you do not understand that truth and he offers evidence.

James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

He uses Abraham’s faith being TESTED by what he did, and he explains how that makes it a living faith.

Peter must have heard about the same ignorant and unstable way of thinking, for that is what he calls it in 1 Peter 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Then Peter warns us to obey.

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

In fact, read all of 2 Peter Chapter 3. You will see the teaching of faith alone totally taught against.


…and look at what Peter says about works, he says you CALL on a Father who judges each person’s work IMPARTIALLY. That means you cannot say you believed therefore your disobedience should not be held against you.

1 Peter 1:17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

Even Paul whom you misunderstand says to works out our salvation with trembling and fear.

Let us back it up in time further, all the people that Peter is speaking to about their faith and their salvation---they first heard and accepted the gospel message, the gospel message is of Jesus dying for the sins we repent of, and how his blood washes those sins away.

1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin.

Have you forgotten that Peter is the one who said, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”?

Acts 5:32 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin.

What does this mean?

(Ecclesiastes 7:20)

Are you now wiser than Solomon?

 

[God's Truth]

These same people who refuse to believe that faith is enough tobe saved must question the following words of the Lord Jesus:

Jesus didn’t nullify his own words.

All the scriptures that say to ‘believe’, those scriptures do not take away or lessen the truth in any way that say ‘obey’.

Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Of course Jesus taught that we have to believe, we have to have faith, but that does NOT mean we no longer have to obey, as the Word of God says.

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).

The prostitutes and tax collector’s REPENTED of their sins. See Matthew 21:31 32For John came to you in a righteous way and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Not only that, what does that scripture say the woman DID? She gave him water for his feet, she cried at his feet and wiped his feet with her hair, and she never stopped kissing his feet and anointed his feet with perfume.

 

[God's Truth]

What does this mean?

(Ecclesiastes 7:20)

Are you now wiser than Solomon?

You proved repeatedly that you have no understanding.

Ecclesiastes SAYS there is not a RIGHTEOUS man who does what is right and NEVER SINS. Ecclesiastes tells us that there ARE RIGHTEOUS men but none who NEVER sin. Nowhere in these passages or scriptures anywhere does it say none can believe on their own and never obey. In this same Ecclesiastes 7, Solomon tells us about wise men, righteous men, and about a man who pleases God. Solomon also tells us that he found one upright man among a thousand. The Bible tells us that there are people who want to do right.


What does Solomon say?! 15 In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these:

the righteous perishing in their righteousness,
and the wicked living long in their wickedness.

Did you hear that? He said the RIGHTEOUS.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You proved repeatedly that you have no understanding.

Ecclesiastes SAYS there is not a RIGHTEOUS man who does what is right and NEVER SINS. Ecclesiastes tells us that there ARE RIGHTEOUS men but none who NEVER sin. Nowhere in these passages or scriptures anywhere does it say none can believe on their own and never obey. In this same Ecclesiastes 7, Solomon tells us about wise men, righteous men, and about a man who pleases God. Solomon also tells us that he found one upright man among a thousand. The Bible tells us that there are people who want to do right.


What does Solomon say?! 15 In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these:

the righteous perishing in their righteousness,
and the wicked living long in their wickedness.

Did you hear that? He said the RIGHTEOUS.

Again... (Ecclesiastes 7:20) Context... "On Earth"
Context... (Ecclesiastes 7:27) - Teacher? Context- (Matthew 23:10)
Context... (Ecclesiastes 7:28) - "One upright Man" (2 Corinthians 5:21) "No righteous woman" (Ephesians 5:23, 30)
Context... (Ecclesiastes 7:29) - "Schemes" ... Context... (Romans 10:3 + Romans 4:4f)

 

[God's Truth]

These same people refuse to believe what Paul said here because they do not think that anyone can be saved by just believing the gospel:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

Paul says the message is to those who fear God and obey Him.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Paul preached to repent and have faith, and prove your repentance by what you do.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

According to the same people the gospel by itself brings salvation to no one, despite what Paul says. These same people deny that the answer given by Paul here cannot be correct because they think that it takes more than belief to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

According to the same people the Lord's words by themselves bring life to no one because one must first believe and then obey to be saved. However, the words of the Lord Jesus here refute their ideas:

You are the one who refuses to believe the truth.

Jesus says we have to obey. Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

You do not get life from Jesus' words unless you do what he says.

God doesn't accept those who do not do right. How are you going to say someone is saved by just believing and not obeying if God does not even accept you unless you do right?

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Did you read that? We who fear Him and LIVE GOOD LIVES are ACCEPTABLE TO HIM.

 

[God's Truth]

Again... (Ecclesiastes 7:20) Context... "On Earth"
Context... (Ecclesiastes 7:27) - Teacher? Context- (Matthew 23:10)
Context... (Ecclesiastes 7:28) - "One upright Man" (2 Corinthians 5:21) "No righteous woman" (Ephesians 5:23, 30)
Context... (Ecclesiastes 7:29) - "Schemes" ... Context... (Romans 10:3 + Romans 4:4f)

You are going to turn a blind eye to the scriptures just to defend your error. Shameless.

You post a bunch of scriptures that you have no idea what they mean.

 

[God's Truth]

I disagree with you there, dear friend. For three reasons.

1.) Christ repeats the same phrase several times. He never gives the clarification that you provide. Despite people turning away.

He did explain it.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

We eat his words, and how do we take his words in? We do that by obeying his words.

If it was simply a misunderstanding, why would He not provide such clarification? Further more, no where in the passage is it labeled as a parable, nor does Christ give your explanation, even to his disciples.

He didn't explain it to the people who left, he explained it to those who stayed; and, he did explain it as I have shown.

2.) In no Nee Testament writing is the explanation you provide, given or even alluded to.

Jesus reveals things to certain people. Just because you do not see it does not mean no one else can.

Read this passage:

Read what Jesus' disciples said to him...

John 4:31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."


32 But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33 Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

Did you read that? Jesus says his food is to DO the will of him who sent me and to FINISH HIS WORK.

We are to do God's will. God's will is that we obey Jesus' teachings.

Now, that proves we eat the flesh of Jesus when we do what Jesus says to do.

That is how we eat the bread from heaven, the bread of life.

Now you can see that you are wrong and that it IS in the Bible what I say.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You are going to turn a blind eye to the scriptures just to defend your error. Shameless.

You post a bunch of scriptures that you have no idea what they mean.

And... Jesus loses to GT's pursuit to Justify works of the Law... Minus... the Cerimonial cleansing stuff...

Wash... Rinse... Repeat...

 

[God's Truth]

Then could we say that "Love" (Romans 13:10) Fulfills the full Law (Deuteronomy 5:1 - Deuteronomy 31:26) for us?

Tell me how you can love without obeying?

I asked you that before and you refuse to answer.

Tell me how you can love if you are stealing?

Tell me how you can love if you are not humble?

Tell me how you can love if you are bearing false witness?

Tell me how you can love if you do not forgive others?

Tell me how you can love if you are committing adultery?


Are you really so blind to the truth?

The whole Bible is a teaching tool on how to love.

You have to obey God's Word, he tells us how to prepare our hearts to be saved, to enter, and he tells us exactly what to do to love purely and sincerely.

You keep preaching against obedience. Jesus' words are truth, he is the TRUTH. How do you think you can preach against obeying yet be for the truth?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Tell me how you can love without obeying?

I asked you that before and you refuse to answer.

Tell me how you can love if you are stealing?

Tell me how you can love if you are not humble?

Tell me how you can love if you are bearing false witness?

Tell me how you can love if you do not forgive others?

Tell me how you can love if you are committing adultery?


Are you really so blind to the truth?

The whole Bible is a teaching tool on how to love.

You have to obey God's Word, he tells us how to prepare our hearts to be saved, to enter, and he tells us exactly what to do to love purely and sincerely.

You keep preaching against obedience. Jesus' words are truth, he is the TRUTH. How do you think you can preach against obeying yet be for the truth?

And... Jesus loses to GT's pursuit to Justify works of the Law... Minus... the Cerimonial cleansing stuff...

Wash... Rinse... Repeat...

Look GT (John 6:63)

 

[God's Truth]

Look GT (John 6:63)

You keep misusing that scripture. How about this; Tell me what part of your flesh does it take to NOT commit adultery? Tell me what part of your flesh does it take to humble yourself? Tell me what part of your flesh does it take to not steal? What part of your flesh does it take to forgive others? You do not have to move not one muscle to obey.

In addition, that scripture is about Jesus explaining that he did NOT mean for us to literally eat his flesh.

You are in a bad way.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You keep misusing that scripture. How about this; Tell me what part of your flesh does it take to NOT commit adultery? Tell me what part of your flesh does it take to humble yourself? Tell me what part of your flesh does it take to not steal? What part of your flesh does it take to forgive others? You do not have to move not one muscle to obey.

In addition, that scripture is about Jesus explaining that he did NOT mean for us to literally eat his flesh.

You are in a bad way.

Pretty please... Quote this... as is...

And every time you reply to me...

Simply place the quote above whatever you write.

(Romans 10:3)

 

[God's Truth]

Pretty please... Quote this... as is...

And every time you reply to me...

Simply place the quote above whatever you write.

You are exactly what is in that wheel. You slander and cannot even reply like a descent human being to my posts.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

[MENTION=14521]God's Truth[/MENTION]

Pretty please... Quote this... as is...

And every time you reply to me...

Simply place the quote above whatever you write.

(Romans 10:3 + Ephesians 2:8f + Romans 4:4f)

 

[jsanford108]

He did explain it.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

We eat his words, and how do we take his words in? We do that by obeying his words.




He didn't explain it to the people who left, he explained it to those who stayed; and, he did explain it as I have shown.


Jesus reveals things to certain people. Just because you do not see it does not mean no one else can.

Read this passage:

Read what Jesus' disciples said to him...

John 4:31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."


32 But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33 Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

Did you read that? Jesus says his food is to DO the will of him who sent me and to FINISH HIS WORK.

We are to do God's will. God's will is that we obey Jesus' teachings.

Now, that proves we eat the flesh of Jesus when we do what Jesus says to do.

That is how we eat the bread from heaven, the bread of life.

Now you can see that you are wrong and that it IS in the Bible what I say.

While your explanation is decent, and a logical connection, it still doesn't adequately explain the Last Supper.

If Christ had revealed that "eating his flesh" was just believing and doing his will, why did he say "This is my body" and "this is my blood." The "doing his will" explanation makes no logical sense in this scenario.

If you wish, I can provide some interesting sources that demonstrate my argument is accurate and historical.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[God's Truth]

While your explanation is decent, and a logical connection, it still doesn't adequately explain the Last Supper.

If Christ had revealed that "eating his flesh" was just believing and doing his will, why did he say "This is my body" and "this is my blood." The "doing his will" explanation makes no logical sense in this scenario.

If you wish, I can provide some interesting sources that demonstrate my argument is accurate and historical.

No, I do not want to read from your sources. I know what those who oppose the truth have to say and I want to debate you here.

You do not understand the last supper.

Do you understand that Jesus is the Lamb of God?

Do you know what a sacrificed lamb was for?

Jesus came to earth and taught the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the New Covenant.

I have already explained how Jesus says his body is bread. I have already explained that we have to eat his flesh by obeying, and we drink his blood is equivalent to believing. After we eat (obey), and drink his blood (believe), that is how we ENTER THE COVENANT, then Jesus gives us pure water to drink. That is receiving the Holy Spirit.

 

[freelight]

(Romans 10:3 + Ephesians 2:8f + Romans 4:4f)

Hey EE,....no fair,...I have used the 'hamster wheel' metaphor in the past to describe some dialogues,...but you beat me to a live graphic! - now get off that wheel before u git dizzy! :crackup:

 

[jsanford108]

No, I do not want to read from your sources. I know what those who oppose the truth have to say and I want to debate you here.

You do not understand the last supper.

Do you understand that Jesus is the Lamb of God?

Do you know what a sacrificed lamb was for?

Jesus came to earth and taught the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the New Covenant.

I have already explained how Jesus says his body is bread. I have already explained that we have to eat his flesh by obeying, and we drink his blood is equivalent to believing. After we eat (obey), and drink his blood (believe), that is how we ENTER THE COVENANT, then Jesus gives us pure water to drink. That is receiving the Holy Spirit.

But you have no scriptural evidence to support your explanation. That is my whole issue with this topic. Those who take an opposing stance to a literal sacrifice have no scriptural evidence to back up their theory. The most I have ever read that came close to evidence was your connection between Christ saying His food was doing the Father's will. However, that requires vast stretching to apply that to John 6, as well as the Last Supper. Why is no such clarification made throughout the NT, when all other aspects of Christ's teachings were clarified, by Him or his disciples?