Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

[Nanja]

Gods purpose for making the reprobate/the vessels of wrath, is to show or demonstrate His Wrath against human sin. This is altogether humbling to the Vessels of Mercy, in that they realize that the Sovereign Potter had the right and power to have made them also Vessels of Wrath and to fit them for destruction, but He had chosen them in Christ to be Vessels of Mercy to And that he might make known the riches of his glory

Eph 1:18

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

See also Eph 3:16;Phil 4:19;Col 1:27

Amen Brother, it was God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 to exclude the Vessels of Wrath from His Election of Grace Rom. 11:5,
and so dealing with them based strictly according to His uncompromising Justice.

So for the Vessels of Mercy, it is indeed very humbling to have been Chosen in union with Christ to have forgiveness of sins Eph 1:4-7, who Himself bare their sins Is. 53:11, Heb. 8:12.

But in contrast, the Vessels of Wrath are left to bear the punishment for their own sins Rev. 21:8.

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[Robert Pate]

The answer to the question is an absolutely yes ! Many scriptures indicate that, if we receive them honestly. Heres one that teaches it by antithesis 1 Thess 5:9

9 [FONT=&]For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

This statement presupposes that God has appointed some to wrath, that word appointed [/FONT]tithémi also means destined, to decree one to be subject to wrath,

All whom God did not choose in Christ and to obtain Salvation by Him, He destined, appointed, decreed them to wrath. This is a work of God, and as it is written Acts 15:18

18 [FONT=&]Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.[/FONT]

What a terrible thing to believe about God.

You are one step up from an atheist, which is not saying much.

Atleast the atheist does not blasphemy God as you do, they just don't believe.

But you believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

You do not have saving faith. You cannot have saving faith and believe what you do about God.

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, it was God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 to exclude the Vessels of Wrath from His Election of Grace Rom. 11:5,
and so dealing with them based strictly according to His uncompromising Justice.

So for the Vessels of Mercy, it is indeed very humbling to have been Chosen in union with Christ to have forgiveness of sins Eph 1:4-7, who Himself bare their sins Is. 53:11, Heb. 8:12.

But in contrast, the Vessels of Wrath are left to bear the punishment for their own sins Rev. 21:8.

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Exactly!

 

[Nanja]

The Two seed doctrine goes back to the beginning of world history Gen 3:15, and ]cain was a vessel of wrath, a child of the wicked one 1 Jn 3:12

¹² Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Remember John just had written that the children of the devil become manifested 1 Jn 3:10

¹⁰ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Notice in the greek text:

ἐν τούτῳ φανερά ἐστιν τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ διαβόλου πᾶς ὁ μὴ ποιῶν δικαιοσύνην οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ὁ μὴ ἀγαπῶν τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ

There's the definite article before children tekna both times, The Children of God and The children of the devil, two separate, distinct, and definite groups

The Children of God are redeemable, them Christ came to die for and gather Jn 11:51-52

⁵¹ And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;


⁵² And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

καὶ οὐχ ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἔθνους μόνον ἀλλ᾽ ἵνα καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ τὰ διεσκορπισμένα συναγάγῃ εἰς ἕν

How are they gathered and manifested ? By Faith in Jesus Christ there kinsman redeemer Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

You see, if we are of the redeemed seed of Gods children, we receive the Spirit, which gives us the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, so manifesting us as the children of God , Vessels of Mercy. However those of mankind that live and die in unbelief manifest themselves as the children of the devil, vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction !

Amen, and all the Redeemed Seed of Christ are the Seed of Abraham [jew and gentile], they are one and the same Gal. 3:16, 29:
The Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23 Chosen in Christ and predestinated to the Adoption of Children/Sons Eph. 1:4-5.

So in time they shall receive the Adoption of Sons by God sending the Spirit of His Son into their hearts.

Gal. 4:4-7
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Rom. 8:14-17
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


But the Vessels of Wrath shall not be Given Faith to believe in Christ. For they were condemned already.

John 3:18, 36
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

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[Crucible]

But everyone has a chance to believe

That is categorically false.

And
Suppose Islam was the true religion, what are your odds of dropping Christianity? 'A chance' is just an empty sentiment.

Therefore,
predestination-- God's providence tightens and loosens the door.

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, it was God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 to exclude the Vessels of Wrath from His Election of Grace Rom. 11:5,
and so dealing with them based strictly according to His uncompromising Justice.

So for the Vessels of Mercy, it is indeed very humbling to have been Chosen in union with Christ to have forgiveness of sins Eph 1:4-7, who Himself bare their sins Is. 53:11, Heb. 8:12.

But in contrast, the Vessels of Wrath are left to bear the punishment for their own sins Rev. 21:8.

~~~~

Amen, and all the Redeemed Seed of Christ are the Seed of Abraham [jew and gentile], they are one and the same Gal. 3:16, 29:
The Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23 Chosen in Christ and predestinated to the Adoption of Children/Sons Eph. 1:4-5.

So in time they shall receive the Adoption of Sons by God sending the Spirit of His Son into their hearts.

Gal. 4:4-7
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Rom. 8:14-17
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


But the Vessels of Wrath shall not be Given Faith to believe in Christ. For they were condemned already.

John 3:18, 36
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

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God has blessed thy understanding!

 

[Nanja]

God has blessed thy understanding!

God is so Good to us, Brother.

All we can do is Praise Him for His Great Mercy which He has deliberately shed upon us Rom. 9:23! ☺

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[patrick jane]

That is categorically false.

And
Suppose Islam was the true religion, what are your odds of dropping Christianity? 'A chance' is just an empty sentiment.

Therefore,
predestination-- God's providence tightens and loosens the door.

Romans 10:17 KJV -

 

[Nanja]

Romans 10:17 KJV -

The Hearing spoken of in Rom. 10:17 is not physical, but Spiritual!

Unless a person is Born of the Spirit of God he is prevented from Hearing God's Words which are Spiritual 1 Cor. 2:13.

John 8:43,47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

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[Crucible]

Romans 10:17 KJV -

By hearing- offering
By receiving- elected

God's divine providence influences both of those things. But you folk only want God in control when you are in need of something lain:

And
Not everyone hears. I bet there's some Asian kid out there who could tell you more about Micheal Jackson than Jesus.

 

[patrick jane]

Not everyone hears. I bet there's some Asian kid out there who could tell you more about Micheal Jackson than Jesus.

According to you that kid's going to hell?

 

[Crucible]

According to you that kid's going to hell?

I'm not the judge of who and who isn't going to Hell.

A famous saying in the Reformed tradition is that a person is not saved because he believes in Christ, but rather he believes in Christ because he is saved-
God will save those who are principled and would believe in Christ if given the chance.

 

[beloved57]

God is so Good to us, Brother.

All we can do is Praise Him for His Great Mercy which He has deliberately shed upon us Rom. 9:23! ☺

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Yep !

 

[beloved57]

The Hearing spoken of in Rom. 10:17 is not physical, but Spiritual!

Unless a person is Born of the Spirit of God he is prevented from Hearing God's Words which are Spiritual 1 Cor. 2:13.

John 8:43,47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

~~~~

Of a Truth !

 

[beloved57]

The vessels of wrath are to be fitted for destruction in the purpose of God.

Matt 23:32-33 ; Rom 9:22

All who are vessels of wrath are compelled by the decree of God to fill up the measure of their sins and enmity against God, so making apparent their meetness for destruction, and so God shows how He is Just in punishing them for their sins, Col 3:5-6

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


⁶ For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

God had determined before the world began, what degree of punishment the vessels of wrath would be fitted for, each one.

 

[Nanja]

The vessels of wrath are to be fitted for destruction in the purpose of God.

Its never Gods purpose for the vessels of wrath to be saved from the wrath to come, in fact its His design for them to fill up the measure of their sin. Jesus told some men this Matt 23:31-33

³¹ Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.


³² Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.


³³ Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


In Vs 32, Jesus is giving a command or an imperative to this wicked seed of the serpent, not to repent, but to continue in the wickedness of their fathers in killing the people of God, even Christ Himself, and gave them no hope at all of escaping the damnation of hell !

No, they are not of those which Jesus came to call to repentance, but contrary, they must continue in hardheartedness and rebellion to fill up their measure being fitted for destruction, even damnation !

Exactly, the generation of vipers Jesus was talking to is the same seed of the serpent spoken of in Gen. 3:15.
And in John 8:44, Jesus confirms that the devil is their father. So being his seed, they are one with him, condemned with their father.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

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[beloved57]

Nanja

Exactly, the generation of vipers Jesus was talking to is the same seed of the serpent spoken of in Gen. 3:15.
And in John 8:44, Jesus confirms that the devil is their father. So being his seed, they are one with him, condemned with their father.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Amen Sister!

 

[Robert Pate]

The vessels of wrath are to be fitted for destruction in the purpose of God.

Matt 23:32-33 ; Rom 9:22

All who are vessels of wrath are compelled by the decree of God to fill up the measure of their sins and enmity against God, so making apparent their meetness for destruction, and so God shows how He is Just in punishing them for their sins, Col 3:5-6

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


⁶ For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

God had determined before the world began, what degree of punishment the vessels of wrath would be fitted for, each one.

You poor blind fool.

Romans 9:22 is the "WHAT IF" scripture. It is not what God is going to do.

What is really sad is that you think that you have been predestinated, but you are really lost. You cannot reject the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ and be saved. You have rejected it and have replaced it with that God hating religion called Calvinism.

 

[beloved57]

You poor blind fool.

Romans 9:22 is the "WHAT IF" scripture. It is not what God is going to do.

What is really sad is that you think that you have been predestinated, but you are really lost. You cannot reject the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ and be saved. You have rejected it and have replaced it with that God hating religion called Calvinism.

As usual you evade and ignore scripture testimony.

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, it was God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 to exclude the Vessels of Wrath from His Election of Grace Rom. 11:5,
and so dealing with them based strictly according to His uncompromising Justice.

So for the Vessels of Mercy, it is indeed very humbling to have been Chosen in union with Christ to have forgiveness of sins Eph 1:4-7, who Himself bare their sins Is. 53:11, Heb. 8:12.

But in contrast, the Vessels of Wrath are left to bear the punishment for their own sins Rev. 21:8.

~~~~

Sorry, made a error.