Nanja
Well-known member
There are two types of sinners.
Those whom Christ died for John 10:11,15; Rom. 9:23; Mat. 25:33-34,
and those whom Christ did not die for John 3:18, 36; Rom 9:22; Mat. 25:41.
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Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
There are two types of sinners.
Those whom Christ died for John 10:11,15; Rom. 9:23; Mat. 25:33-34,
and those whom Christ did not die for John 3:18, 36; Rom 9:22; Mat. 25:41.
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Exactly, He died for ALL who believe !!! Good job
That's why it's a cult following
beloved57
Well-known member
Sure, but He didn't die for them that never believe because they were not of His Sheep John 10:26!
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen Sister!
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes Sister you are right, two types of sinners in Gods Eternal Purpose, Vessels of Wrath, and Vessels of Mercy. Now this momentous and most despised Truth has been seen and Illustrated throughout world History, back to the beginning with the most malign truth in the bible, the two seeds, note Gods words Gen 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
This is Two seeds, of the Women and of the serpent, which is the devil. One of these seeds is Loved by God, and the other is hated, one chosen the other rejected. God in His eternal purpose had mercy in store for one, wrath for the other. God had purposed to redeem one through the sacrifice of Christ Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
1 Pet 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained[for your redemption] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
And the other seed, He purposed not to redeem, but to be made, created for the purpose of destruction Rom 9:22
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to makeone vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
The word make is the grk word poieō which means to create, its used here in Matt 19:4
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
And just as God had an eternal Purpose in making male and female, so did He in making vessels of wrath and mercy. The one seed He had made for to be " afore prepared unto glory" which is the vessels of mercy, the seed of the women, and the other seed made to be "the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
The one seed is the Children of God, the other seed, the children of the devil or the wicked one Matt 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;[not eligible for redemption]
1Jn 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
The children of the devil are not eligible for redemption because they bare no relationship to the Kinsman Redeemer the Lord Jesus Christ. In order to be redeemed, the redeemer must be kin to us, Christ has no kinship with the seed of the devil, the children of the devil.
beloved57
Well-known member
Cain was a child of the devil, a Vessel of wrath
The Two seed doctrine goes back to the beginning of world history Gen 3:15, and cain was a vessel of wrath, a child of the wicked one 1 Jn 3:12
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Remember John just had written that the children of the devil become manifested 1 Jn 3:10
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Notice in the greek text:
ἐν τούτῳ φανερά ἐστιν τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ διαβόλου πᾶς ὁ μὴ ποιῶν δικαιοσύνην οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ὁ μὴ ἀγαπῶν τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ
There's the definite article before children tekna both times, The Children of God and The children of the devil, two separate, distinct, and definite groups
The Children of God are redeemable, them Christ came to die for and gather Jn 11:51-52
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
καὶ οὐχ ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἔθνους μόνον ἀλλ᾽ ἵνα καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ τὰ διεσκορπισμένα συναγάγῃ εἰς ἕν
How are they gathered and manifested ? By Faith in Jesus Christ there kinsman redeemer Rom 8:16
Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
You see, if we are of the redeemed seed of Gods children, we receive the Spirit, which gives us the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, so manifesting us as the children of God , Vessels of Mercy. However those of mankind that live and die in unbelief manifest themselves as the children of the devil, vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction !
The Two seed doctrine goes back to the beginning of world history Gen 3:15, and cain was a vessel of wrath, a child of the wicked one 1 Jn 3:12
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Remember John just had written that the children of the devil become manifested 1 Jn 3:10
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Notice in the greek text:
ἐν τούτῳ φανερά ἐστιν τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ διαβόλου πᾶς ὁ μὴ ποιῶν δικαιοσύνην οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ὁ μὴ ἀγαπῶν τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ
There's the definite article before children tekna both times, The Children of God and The children of the devil, two separate, distinct, and definite groups
The Children of God are redeemable, them Christ came to die for and gather Jn 11:51-52
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
καὶ οὐχ ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἔθνους μόνον ἀλλ᾽ ἵνα καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ τὰ διεσκορπισμένα συναγάγῃ εἰς ἕν
How are they gathered and manifested ? By Faith in Jesus Christ there kinsman redeemer Rom 8:16
| The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: |
Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
You see, if we are of the redeemed seed of Gods children, we receive the Spirit, which gives us the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, so manifesting us as the children of God , Vessels of Mercy. However those of mankind that live and die in unbelief manifest themselves as the children of the devil, vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction !
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Nanja
Well-known member
Right on Brother, it's only the Seed of Abraham to whom Christ was Kinsman Redeemer Heb. 2:16, His Seed, who are the Children /Sons of God, chosen of the Father in His Son Eph. 1:4-5.
Gal. 3:16, 29
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
But the seed of the devil are condemned already, because they never had any relation to Christ whatsoever, and so they are prevented from believing in Him and shall permanently remain in an unregenerate state John 3:18, 36; 10:26.
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Exactly, now we're gettin' somewhere b57 !!! But everyone has a chance to believe !!! It comes by hearing the word of God Romans 10:17 KJV -
beloved57
Well-known member
Those Christ died for are not subject to damnation, in fact they have been reconciled to God even while being enemies Rom 5:10
beloved57
Well-known member
False statement. Rom 10:17 does not say everyone has a chance to believe.
beloved57
Well-known member
Exactly!
What Romans 5:10 means is that reconciliation has been provided, but its not yours if you don't accept it. It would really be silly to believe that God imposes reconciliation on someone.
beloved57
Well-known member
False teaching ! Reconciliation has been accomplished for them Christ died for !
Nanja
Well-known member
So True!
Yet Lost people always bring their works of the flesh into the equation.
Rom. 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
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Everybody that can hear or read has a chance to know Christ and be SAVED !!! God is great !!!
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen Sister!
beloved57
Well-known member
False statement not found in scripture!
beloved57
Well-known member
Gods purpose for making the reprobate/the vessels of wrath, is to show or demonstrate His Wrath against human sin. This is altogether humbling to the Vessels of Mercy, in that they realize that the Sovereign Potter had the right and power to have made them also Vessels of Wrath and to fit them for destruction, but He had chosen them in Christ to be Vessels of Mercy to And that he might make known the riches of his glory
Eph 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
See also Eph 3:16;Phil 4:19;Col 1:27
Eph 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
See also Eph 3:16;Phil 4:19;Col 1:27
beloved57
Well-known member
The vessels of wrath are to be fitted for destruction in the purpose of God.
Its never Gods purpose for the vessels of wrath to be saved from the wrath to come, in fact its His design for them to fill up the measure of their sin. Jesus told some men this Matt 23:31-33
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
In Vs 32, Jesus is giving a command or an imperative to this wicked seed of the serpent, not to repent, but to continue in the wickedness of their fathers in killing the people of God, even Christ Himself, and gave them no hope at all of escaping the damnation of hell !
No, they are not of those which Jesus came to call to repentance, but contrary, they must continue in hardheartedness and rebellion to fill up their measure being fitted for destruction, even damnation !
Its never Gods purpose for the vessels of wrath to be saved from the wrath to come, in fact its His design for them to fill up the measure of their sin. Jesus told some men this Matt 23:31-33
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
In Vs 32, Jesus is giving a command or an imperative to this wicked seed of the serpent, not to repent, but to continue in the wickedness of their fathers in killing the people of God, even Christ Himself, and gave them no hope at all of escaping the damnation of hell !
No, they are not of those which Jesus came to call to repentance, but contrary, they must continue in hardheartedness and rebellion to fill up their measure being fitted for destruction, even damnation !