Theology Club: Did God place Adam in the garden for him to fail?

[Word based mystic]

lighthouse quote "The Bible is clear on the fact that the future is not yet [e.g. does not exist] and God does not know it because it does not exist and therefore cannot be known".

God the Father Whom is Spirit is not subject to time and space and sees and knows all things

If God the Father who is Spirit is subject to His created (matter) than He is not truly God.

lighthouse quote. "There are many instances of God doing something to find out what would happen, and the text even states that specifically."

Only the Son Who is the fleshly image of the Father was described as not having perfect foreknowledge.
The Son which was firstborn of all creation is the One you describe in your last statement above.

 

[Cross Reference]

why was Jesus tempted?

was it not for Him to be tempted hebrews 4:15

like we were in every fashion yet?

<Short version>

Jesus was a man approved of God because He overcame ALL of the temptations now suffered by all mankind to become that which God purposed for in Himself set in man which He created. Adam was originally "offered" the position in who would reside, had he eaten of the Tree of Life, the Eternal Word of the Father. He forfeited that by disobedience.The Logos of God set in the man Jesus is now that center piece but, of a totally new creation build upon Redemption and given a Name above every Name either in Heaven or Earth __ including Jehovah.

 

[Lighthouse]

God the Father Whom is Spirit is not subject to time and space and sees and knows all things

If God the Father who is Spirit is subject to His created (matter) than He is not truly God.

Only the Son Who is the fleshly image of the Father was described as not having perfect foreknowledge.
The Son which was firstborn of all creation is the One you describe in your last statement above.

Where is the Scripture that states God is not within time?

Where is the Scripture stating time is a creation?

 

[Cross Reference]

Where is the Scripture that states God is not within time?

He didn't say God wasn't "within time" but rather God was not subject to it.

Where is the Scripture stating time is a creation?

He didn't say that either.

Why not stay with what he did say?

 

[Bright Raven]

God placed Adam in the garden for fellowship.

 

[Cross Reference]

God placed Adam in the garden for fellowship.

What kind of fellowship do you suppose that could possibly be since Adam was finite? Perhaps you think God would simply show up with gifts for all the kids birthday parties?

Why not consider that God had in mind to bring Adam to a point in righteousness that He coud receive the Whole Godhead by imputation? I believe that was the pleasure God had in mind __ and performed/accomplished it in the second Adam, Jesus Christ.

 

[Bright Raven]

What kind of fellowship do you suppose that could possibly be since Adam was finite? Perhaps you think God would simply show up with gifts for all the kids birthday parties?

Then why did God create man in the first place? Think about it.

 

[Cross Reference]

Then why did God create man in the first place? Think about it.

Re-read my post. I edited it.

 

[Lighthouse]

He didn't say God wasn't "within time" but rather God was not subject to it.

His intended meaning was the same and I only sought to clarify.

He didn't say that either.

Yes he did.

Why not stay with what he did say?

How about you learn to read?

 

[Word based mystic]

What kind of fellowship do you suppose that could possibly be since Adam was finite? Perhaps you think God would simply show up with gifts for all the kids birthday parties?

Why not consider that God had in mind to bring Adam to a point in righteousness that He coud receive the Whole Godhead by imputation? I believe that was the pleasure God had in mind __ and performed/accomplished it in the second Adam, Jesus Christ.

ephesians 3:19 which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

exactly

 

[Cross Reference]

ephesians 3:19 which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

exactly

Yes! That's it!

Do you think any Sunday afternoon chicken dinner social Christian will make the cut?

 

[Word based mystic]

Yes! That's it!

Do you think any Sunday afternoon chicken dinner social Christian will make the cut?

I first experienced Christ at 15. without denomination or a teacher.

just the bible and a book by hal lindsey that directed me to the bible.

I began in a disciples of Christ church going to a youth group.
someone my age discipled me.

It was sad but the adult leaders of the group and elders knew less of the bible then my friend that discipled me.

It took me another 5 years while in the navy to have a fuller experience with the Holy Spirit. Thus i took seriously
Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

consciously putting aside my fleshly, carnal concerns so that I may be yielded to Being led with the Spirit and put on the mind of Christ seriously.

It took another 15 years to get a fuller understanding of what you are discussing and trying to point out here.

That it is Gods substance/His Spirit within a man that the Father is only satisfied with.
Only when We are fully mature in Love then God will Fill us with (all) the (fullness) of God.

and that that is the main objective He has for His children.

 

[Word based mystic]

How nice it would have been if I would have been able to find an elder with much understanding that could have begun my walk with this basic and main theme.

But it worked out as God nudged me slowly over the years to get a better grasp of the Love and the desire to Have Him possess us.

In the late 70's and early 80's there were few elders in the many churches i visited or fellowshipped with while in the navy.
Or maybe i wasn't looking.
most elders i notice that are humble and knowledgeable are not self promoting.

CR thanks for the direction in these threads...

 

[Cross Reference]

I first experienced Christ at 15. without denomination or a teacher.

just the bible and a book by hal lindsey that directed me to the bible.

I began in a disciples of Christ church going to a youth group.
someone my age discipled me.

It was sad but the adult leaders of the group and elders knew less of the bible then my friend that discipled me.

It took me another 5 years while in the navy to have a fuller experience with the Holy Spirit. Thus i took seriously
Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

consciously putting aside my fleshly, carnal concerns so that I may be yielded to Being led with the Spirit and put on the mind of Christ seriously.

It took another 15 years to get a fuller understanding of what you are discussing and trying to point out here.

That it is Gods substance/His Spirit within a man that the Father is only satisfied with.
Only when We are fully mature in Love then God will Fill us with (all) the (fullness) of God.

and that that is the main objective He has for His children.

Amen, my Brother, Amen. Thank you.

Navy, you say? What years of your life and where?

 

[Word based mystic]

Amen, my Brother, Amen. Thank you.

Navy, you say? What years of your life and where?

1981-1985

hospital corpsman
then specializes as a psychiatric technician.

san diego
buford s.c.
charelston s.c.

some of my most adventurous times and miraculous interventions by God while in the military.

 

[Cross Reference]

1981-1985

hospital corpsman
then specializes as a psychiatric technician.

san diego
buford s.c.
charelston s.c.

some of my most adventurous times and miraculous interventions by God while in the military.

I was twenty years before you in Long Beach, Ca.

I see you are in Loganvile , ga.

I was through there in December, if loganville is near Columbus.

 

[Word based mystic]

I was twenty years before you in Long Beach, Ca.

I see you are in Loganvile , ga.

I was through there in December, if loganville is near Columbus.

you were in military in much harsher times.. Thanks for service.

I ended up in atlanta area after navy.

loganville is close to athens ga. halfway between athens and atlanta.

my friend here works close with ywam missions. and wycliff translators
puts together solar based back packs for missionaries, audio video systems for up to 1000 people to see the jesus film.
I am addicted to the 2 week support mission trips. heidi baker is our next teams trip in mozambique.

 

[Cross Reference]

you were in military in much harsher times.. Thanks for service.

I ended up in atlanta area after navy.

loganville is close to athens ga. halfway between athens and atlanta.

my friend here works close with ywam missions. and wycliff translators
puts together solar based back packs for missionaries, audio video systems for up to 1000 people to see the jesus film.
I am addicted to the 2 week support mission trips. heidi baker is our next teams trip in mozambique.

WoW! That's great!

Re Loganville. I knew saw the sign but on my way back through Atlanta to Augusta on Rt 20.

 

[Cross Reference]

So the question remains: Do you believe God placed Adam in the garden for him to fail? Many believe He did just so Jesus could redeem mankind. Some actually believe that themselves an a few others were the only ones meant to be redeemed. How do they figure it that way?

 

[Ardima]

Where is the Scripture that states God is not within time?

Where is the Scripture stating time is a creation?

Try the very first verse of the Bible.

(Genesis 1:1) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Here we have all three components that make up the universe; time, space, and matter. "In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth." (matter)

Without space and matter there would be no beginning; for time can only exist as long as matter exists. Therefore, time started at the beginning of creation. Notice also that it says in the beginning not a beginning.... In a way you could say that time is a relative byproduct of matter.