Theology Club: Did God place Adam in the garden for him to fail?

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Ardima said:
Try reading the gospel according to John chapters 14 - 16 and get back to me. The Holy Spirit teaches the truth, and only the truth that the Father wishes us to know at certain points in our spiritual growth. The more mature we grow as Christians; the more truth is revealed to us by the Spirit of Truth.
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Revealed? Teaches? They are not gifts.
 
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Ardima said:
That is a bit vague. What have I claimed about how any relationship with God works that you object to?
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No relationship with God can function when built upon the foundation of "presumption."


My life is a gift from God though the marvelous work of Jesus Christ. I cannot surrender that which is not mine.
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Then what is it you presume to have been "gifted"?

I may try to grasp at it at times so that it may seem as though I have control, but God has complete sovereignty and all things are going just as He has planned according to His will.
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You have no and can have no clue as to what you presume upon.

If you say God has gifted you something, anything, that is what He wants back from you that He might use it, reveal it FROM His gifted life within you, i.e., as a government that explains Himself as Jesus exampled. But you say you have nothing. __ I believe that. I say it is not a gift but a responsibility we have been "gifted", if we say we have been born again.

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:" 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV)
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Ardima

Ardima

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Cross Reference said:
No relationship with God can function when built upon the foundation of "presumption."
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Who are we to judge any man's relationship with God? My relationship with God is built on the foundation of Jesus Christ and His Gospel. To build on any other foundation is to build on sand.

Cross Reference said:
Then what is it you presume to have been "gifted"?
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I have been "gifted" Jesus Christ, and in him I have my life.



Cross Reference said:
You have no and can have no clue as to what you presume upon.
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You keep talking about presumptions you think I have all the while you continually refuse to address your own presumptions.

Cross Reference said:
If you say God has gifted you something, anything, that is what He wants back from you that He might use it, reveal it FROM His gifted life within you.
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Of course God wants back the life that He has gifted us. The whole reason for giving it to us in the first place is that we might use it to glorify Him in all good works. We cannot do this by simply believing the Gospel; we must also live the Gospel.


Cross Reference said:
i.e., as a government that explains Himself as Jesus exampled. But you say you have nothing. __ I believe that.
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No, you say I have nothing. You are treading dangerous waters in your own relationship with God when you begin to attack another's.

Cross Reference said:
I say it is not a gift but a responsibility we have been "gifted", if we say we have been born again.
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Now you sound Catholic. Jesus Christ is the gift, the only gift, we have from God. Everything else we presume as gifts are only found in Christ. God chooses who and when Christ is revealed to each individual.

Cross Reference said:
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:" 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV)
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What is the first and last part of the verse you quoted? Chosen... Called you out... Thank you for proving my point. It is amazing how you seem to post the exact verses that I need. With God there are no coincidences...
 
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Ardima said:
Who are we to judge any man's relationship with God? My relationship with God is built on the foundation of Jesus Christ and His Gospel. To build on any other foundation is to build on sand.

I have been "gifted" Jesus Christ, and in him I have my life.


You keep talking about presumptions you think I have all the while you continually refuse to address your own presumptions.



Of course God wants back the life that He has gifted us. The whole reason for giving it to us in the first place is that we might use it to glorify Him in all good works. We cannot do this by simply believing the Gospel; we must also live the Gospel.


No, you say I have nothing. You are treading dangerous waters in your own relationship with God when you begin to attack another's.

Now you sound Catholic. Jesus Christ is the gift, the only gift, we have from God. Everything else we presume as gifts are only found in Christ. God chooses who and when Christ is revealed to each individual.



What is the first and last part of the verse you quoted? Chosen... Called you out... Thank you for proving my point. It is amazing how you seem to post the exact verses that I need. With God there are no coincidences...
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<use His gift to. . . grow up>
 
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Ardima said:
This coming from someone who denies the need of the Gospel of Jesus Christ... No Jesus; not righteousness. No Jesus; no hope.... period
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You have convinced me you are a lost cause; a broken record; a very wilfully ignorant person. You are right to the exclusion of all scriptural evidence that would have you know the truth Why your obstinacy and what you hope to gain by your willful ignorance is, beyond me..

I have nothing in common with you, not even Jesus.
 
Ardima

Ardima

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Cross Reference said:
You have convinced me you are a lost cause; a broken record; a very wilfully ignorant person. You are right to the exclusion of all scriptural evidence that would have you know the truth Why your obstinacy and what you hope to gain by your willful ignorance is, beyond me..

I have nothing in common with you, not even Jesus.
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It is sad to hear that you do not have Jesus because no Jesus; not righteousness. No Jesus; no hope.

I do not back down on the Truth that the Spirit has shown me. The Truth is the entire Bible is focused on God's Love; the the Love of God and the Love for God. The theme of the entire Bible is the Gospel of Jesus Christ in which we truly know the Love of God. If you cannot view scripture through this lens then you are blind to the truth. The OT is filled with those who have faith in the coming Savior and what He will do. The NT is filled with those who have faith in the risen Savior and what He has done. Either way they are justified (made righteous) by God because of their faith in Jesus Christ the Savior of all men, especially those who believe.
 
Cross Reference

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Ardima said:
It is sad to hear that you do not have Jesus because no Jesus; not righteousness. No Jesus; no hope.

I do not back down on the Truth that the Spirit has shown me. The Truth is the entire Bible is focused on God's Love; the the Love of God and the Love for God. The theme of the entire Bible is the Gospel of Jesus Christ in which we truly know the Love of God. If you cannot view scripture through this lens then you are blind to the truth. The OT is filled with those who have faith in the coming Savior and what He will do. The NT is filled with those who have faith in the risen Savior and what He has done. Either way they are justified (made righteous) by God because of their faith in Jesus Christ the Savior of all men, especially those who believe.
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The Truth of Jesus Christ does not reside in you as you suppose nor anyone who mis-constures the written word of God and the words of others to satisfy his need to be right. As Jesus might put it: "You are of your father, the devil".
 
Ardima

Ardima

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Cross Reference said:
The Truth of Jesus Christ does not reside in you as you suppose nor anyone who mis-constures the written word of God and the words of others to satisfy his need to be right. As Jesus might put it: "You are of your father, the devil".
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What you teach is not of Scripture and goes against the very nature of God which I have proved. What I believe in this matter not only lines up with all of Scripture; it lines up with the nature, character, and attributes of the Eternal One. The Bible clearly states that God is sovereign, that He knows all things, and that He never changes. God had planned the need for the Gospel of Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world that we may know Him and He know us through the grace, mercy, and righteousness of His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ. No Jesus; no righteousness. No Jesus; no hope.


(Ephesians 2:12) Remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

 
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Ardima said:
What you teach is not of Scripture and goes against the very nature of God which I have proved. What I believe in this matter not only lines up with all of Scripture; it lines up with the nature, character, and attributes of the Eternal One. The Bible clearly states that God is sovereign, that He knows all things, and that He never changes. God had planned the need for the Gospel of Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world that we may know Him and He know us through the grace, mercy, and righteousness of His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ. No Jesus; no righteousness. No Jesus; no hope.


(Ephesians 2:12) Remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

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. . and no hope for understanding for the one who believes that commentary speak from you.
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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God did not place Adam and Eve in the garden so that they would fail

God [with foreknowledge] placed them in the garden because He KNEW they would fail. That shows wise preplanning.
 
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