Did Christ die for all men?

[Sonnet]

That isn't what Piper teaches (Mt 18:14). :dizzy: Jesus is for anyone who would believe (Jn 3:16). You must be born again (Jn 3:7). You'll know you've been born again when the Spirit testifies with your spirit that you are his (Ro 8:16). :straight:

Piper believes in particular redemption but preaches to unbelievers that 'Christ died for your sins.'

 

[Sonnet]

"... and this not of yourselves, it is a gift from God, not of works, so no man 'can' boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8b-10

It continues the discussion of where you and I fall on the issue of 'not of ourselves.'

Read Romans 4:1-4. If faith has anything which would constitute work righteousness then Paul could not have written those words.

 

[Nick M]

I believe Jesus told them "why" He was going to die.


Peace

He did. So the gospel writers after the fact could put it down. They did not know what was going on. Nobody did but the Lord Jesus Christ himself.

Luke 18

31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.”

34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.

 

[Lon]

Read Romans 4:1-4. If faith has anything which would constitute work righteousness then Paul could not have written those words.

"Faith is not a work" can be applied to all. The Calvinist sees Faith as a gift as well. IOW, all pretty much on the same page.

 

[serpentdove]

...Piper will still be telling those whom he considers not among the elect that Jesus died for their sins. That would be disingenuous.

He merely stated that in that room, some were not believers. Why do you think he was pleading with them to believe? We are a little flock (Lk 12:32).

 

[Sonnet]

"Faith is not a work" can be applied to all. The Calvinist sees Faith as a gift as well. IOW, all pretty much on the same page.

Abraham believed. Faith is morally neutral. God spoke to Abraham and Abraham believed.

 

[Sonnet]

He merely stated that in that room, some were not believers. Why do you think he was pleading with them to believe? We are a little flock (Lk 12:32).

Piper, de facto, has told those whom Christ did not shed his blood for (Piper's view, not mine) - 'Christ died for your sins.'

 

[serpentdove]

It is a universal or open call, I think, on Piper's part. I think we can get caught up on trying to figure out 'who' will respond to a call, but in this sense, whoever hears Piper is called to "...embrace the gospel that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the righteous one, died for your sins..."

After the response, we can all argue over who didn't come and why but Luke 15:10 Romans 10:10 Acts 2:21

Right. They've heard. They must respond.

Ro 10:14

 

[serpentdove]

So did Piper misspeak or not? Is he tripping over a theology that is in error? If he isn't, why not? For what could be more important than giving the gospel as scripture defined it?...

He gives the gospel out everyday. :dizzy: Jesus did die for your sins.

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures (1 Co 15:3–4).

 

[serpentdove]

...There is nothing in God's Word that mandates one be a Calvinist or an Arminian to be Saved.

That's right; and they're both wrong.

See:

Does God Elect Everyone?

 

[serpentdove]

John 3:16-21. Proves that Jesus died for the sins of the world.

Darn tootin'. :BillyBob:

 

[Sonnet]

He gives the gospel out everyday. :dizzy: Jesus did die for your sins.

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures (1 Co 15:3–4).

But Piper does not believe that Christ necessarily died for my sins. I'm not a believer.

 

[csuguy]

But Piper does not believe that Christ necessarily died for my sins. I'm not a believer.

Why so concerned with what this Piper person thinks?

 

[Sonnet]

Why so concerned with what this Piper person thinks?

I'm using him as an example - to show how Calvinist's trip up whilst attempting to preach the Gospel. Some folk wont preach 1 Cor 15:3-4 to unbelievers but:

Paul's words, not mine:

Galatians 1:9
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

The Gospel that is preached to the Galatians (currently, as believers) must, Paul says, be the same Gospel as the one they accepted. Paul curses those that preach another Gospel.

What did Paul preach:
1 Corinthians 15:3-4,11.


That's one Gospel. Irrespective.​

 

[Nang]

Right. They've heard. They must respond.

Ro 10:14

Actually, down through all of history, there has been a great, great multitude of souls that have never heard the Gospel.

How come? How do you figure these can respond, when they have never heard the truths of God Almighty?

Natural revelation?

I think not. Paul taught that the witness of God in the creation all around, only condemns men. Romans 1:18-25

Only being given ears to hear the gospel, and exercising faith in the message preached, saves souls.

 

[serpentdove]

...[W]ould you be so kind as to share with me a quote from the Prophets where they speak about Jesus and asked Pilate to crucify Jesus? ...

Judas sold Jesus out to the high priests (Mt 27:3). Pilate found no fault in him. The religious rulers said if he didn't , he would be no friend of Caesar's (Jn 19:12). They slept with linger: Rome

then and now.

Joseph was falsely accused and beaten for sleeping with Potiphar's wife (a type of Whore of Babylon [Re 17:5]). Jesus was falsely accused, as well.

"...And whilst Potiphar's men were beating Joseph, he continued to cry out and weep, and there was a child there eleven months old, and the Lord opened the mouth of the child, and he spake these words before Potiphar's men, who were smiting Joseph, saying, What do you want of this man, and why do you do this evil unto him? My mother speaketh falsely and uttereth lies; thus was the transaction." Jasher 44:64-65

 

[beloved57]

lon

"Faith is not a work"

Oh yes it is. In fact its a work of the law, thats what Jesus indicates here Matt 23:23

²³ Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[Lon]

Abraham believed. Faith is morally neutral. God spoke to Abraham and Abraham believed.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God. I'm fairly monergistic simply because I'm clay. There is absolutely nothing I have that wasn't given to me. In the end, every micro-gram of energy I have is given to me. I'm not certain anything of mine was/is neutral.

 

[beloved57]

lon

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God.

And hearing Gods words comes from being born of God Jn 8:47

⁴⁷ He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[heir]

Did Christ Die for all Men?

No, he didn't. Yes, He did (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV).