Debateing Is A Sin
- Thread starter Squeaky
- Start date
Rebuke - Επιτιμησον· Reprove cuttingly and severely those who will not abandon their sins.
I said
lololo 2Tim is NOT at Mars hill. And where in the world did you get that definition of rebuke. Your starting to ramble. This is the definition from strongs dictionary.
1651 elegcho (el-eng'-kho);
of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish:
KJV-- convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.
I said
lololo 2Tim is NOT at Mars hill. And where in the world did you get that definition of rebuke. Your starting to ramble. This is the definition from strongs dictionary.
1651 elegcho (el-eng'-kho);
of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish:
KJV-- convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.
I hope everyone can see what debating and rambling is now. glorydays has gone off the deep end. Only people who don't know the Holy Spirit go off the deep end like this.
2 Tim 2:14
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
(NKJ)
2 Tim 2:14
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
(NKJ)
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm not sure I can stand to converse with someone who sounds so much like God's UNtruth.
Get a grip on yourself, man.
I didn't say it was at Mars Hill, I said it was a better example than the one you gave.
I see the word rebuke and I understand exactly what it means. I don't know what your silly laughter is about, though. Desperation setting in?
glorydaz
Well-known member
God's UNtruth. Is that you? :chuckle:
glorydaz
Well-known member
The difference between flesh and spirit is all throughout the Bible.
Paul says quite clearly he is not in the flesh, nor does he walk according to the flesh.
When the flesh stirs you up, Squeaky, we see it. In fact, that insane laughing is of the flesh, and your resorting to calling on others to join you in your fleshly tirade is of the flesh. You've turned into a pile of self-righteous flesh all while claiming debating is a sin.
You people who put yourselves under the law had better work on calming yourselves.
It wasn't Paul who was in need of calming. It's you false teachers when once you're exposed.
I said
lol My laughter is at you. You have spent 4 pages on this board trying to cover up your misunderstanding of two little verses. You tried everything you could to make them say something they didn't. That is what happens to people who don't understand the scriptures. So you debate and argue and push even to the point of going away off subject to the book of 2Tim. Grasping at straws. You should try to find the Holy Spirit He can help you with your problem.
Acts 17:16-17
16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols.
17 Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there.
(NKJ)
The difference between flesh and spirit is all throughout the Bible.
Paul says quite clearly he is not in the flesh, nor does he walk according to the flesh.
When the flesh stirs you up, Squeaky, we see it. In fact, that insane laughing is of the flesh, and your resorting to calling on others to join you in your fleshly tirade is of the flesh. You've turned into a pile of self-righteous flesh all while claiming debating is a sin.
You people who put yourselves under the law had better work on calming yourselves.
It wasn't Paul who was in need of calming. It's you false teachers when once you're exposed.
I said
lol Your rambling again.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Squeaky claims the above text relates to Paul's spirit being stirred up when he saw the worshipping of idols. As if one's flesh would be stirred up by such. :nono:
Yet he rejects the text I gave from 2 Tim. Since Paul was STIRRED UP at those who worshipped idols, it's clear that PAUL's spirit being stirred up was not of the flesh, as Squeaky is claiming
So Phil. 1 was on topic, but 2 Timothy is grasping at straws. Poor Squeaky, he could use some OIL.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You're debating me about my rambling? Now that is a hoot.
Squeaky claims the above text relates to Paul's spirit being stirred up when he saw the worshipping of idols. As if one's flesh would be stirred up by such. :nono:
Yet he rejects the text I gave from 2 Tim. Since Paul was STIRRED UP at those who worshipped idols, it's clear that PAUL's spirit being stirred up was not of the flesh, as Squeaky is claiming
So Phil. 1 was on topic, but 2 Timothy is grasping at straws. Poor Squeaky, he could use some OIL.
I said
lol Your rambling again.
I said
lol That's not debating. Your just grasping at straws. That is an observation.
A lot of people have this problem when discussing the bible. From two different translations. And two different dictionaries. the carnal dictionaries like websters, and funk and wagnal have slightly different definitions than bible dictionaries have, like strongs or nelsons. That is why one needs to have a bible dictionary when they study the bible. Anyone using the KJV should have a bible dictionary handy before they assume they understand a word in the bible. But that is why I have this comparison Between the KJV and the NKJV. If you understand where the other person is coming from you can avoid the debates.
Acts 17:16-17
16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
(KJV)
1256 dialegomai (dee-al-eg'-om-ahee);
middle voice from 1223 and 3004; to say thoroughly, i.e. discuss (in argument or exhortation):
KJV-- dispute, preach (unto), reason (with), speak.
3947 paroxuno (par-ox-oo'-no);
from 3844 and a derivative of 3691; to sharpen alongside, i.e. (figuratively) to exasperate:
KJV-- easily provoke, stir.
Acts 17:16-17
16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols.
17 Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there.
(NKJ)
Acts 17:16-17
16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
(KJV)
1256 dialegomai (dee-al-eg'-om-ahee);
middle voice from 1223 and 3004; to say thoroughly, i.e. discuss (in argument or exhortation):
KJV-- dispute, preach (unto), reason (with), speak.
3947 paroxuno (par-ox-oo'-no);
from 3844 and a derivative of 3691; to sharpen alongside, i.e. (figuratively) to exasperate:
KJV-- easily provoke, stir.
Acts 17:16-17
16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols.
17 Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there.
(NKJ)
glorydaz
Well-known member
Seriously, dude?
While you ramble on about my rambling.
You just can't make this stuff up, folks. :chuckle:
glorydaz
Well-known member
The key word is spirit, and you allow yourself to get hung up on whether his spirit was stirred or provoked? :doh:
A man's spirit is how a man communes with God. It is God that stirs or provokes man's spirit.
Haggai 1:14 And the Lord stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and did work in the house of the Lord of hosts, their God,
And why was Paul's spirit stirred up or provoked? Because God was angered at the idols in the city. His anger was why Paul's SPIRIT was stirred/provoked.
Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Jeremiah 8:19 Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the Lord in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
Jeremiah 8:19 Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the Lord in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
Look beyond your pride and your need to be right. Arguing over words when the point is so clear.
It wasn't Paul's flesh that provoked Paul. It was the LORD that was provoked, and God sent Paul out to rebuke, and exhort, and PREACH exactly as God had called him to do.
And you blame his flesh. :nono: Don't do it, Squeaky. I expect better from you.
I said
lol Its true when one loses all contact with Jesus they run to the old testament. Jesus told us the old testament is obsolete. Jesus came to deliver us from the old testament. And now you have returned to it.
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)
Jesus told us that all who EVER came before Him were thieves and robbers. Now your turning to them for advice?
John 10:7-8
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
(NKJ)
Are you joining the violent?
Luke 16:16
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
(NKJ)
Matt 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
(NKJ)
Now you have even fallen from grace. Was it worth it?
Gal 5:4
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)
oatmeal
Well-known member
What was Jesus and his enemies doing in John 8
How would you describe his conversation with those whose father was the devil. Was he agreeing with them? or debating them?
Define debate
If we do not present scripture that is useful for the other to learn and recognize we may be doing a disservice to them
Although there may be a find line between simply debating for the sake of debate and presenting truth for the sake of presenting truth, I myself find the negative aspects of debate unprofitable.
Do people want to learn or not?
How would you describe his conversation with those whose father was the devil. Was he agreeing with them? or debating them?
Define debate
If we do not present scripture that is useful for the other to learn and recognize we may be doing a disservice to them
Although there may be a find line between simply debating for the sake of debate and presenting truth for the sake of presenting truth, I myself find the negative aspects of debate unprofitable.
Do people want to learn or not?
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I SAID
The first thing you should remember is that the new testament wasn't in affect until after Jesus died.
Heb 9:16-17
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
(NKJ)
Then you can get the right perspective. The definition of strife is debate.
1 Cor 3:3
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
(KJV)
Phil 1:15-17
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
(KJV)
1 Tim 6:4
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
(KJV)
2054 eris (er'-is);
of uncertain affinity; a quarrel, i.e. (by implication) wrangling:
KJV-- contention, debate, strife, variance.
The books in the New Testament weren't even written until after Jesus ascended into Heaven. That doesn't mean that what was said/written before He died had no merit until after.
Not exactly.
| strife /strīf/ noun angry or bitter disagreement over fundamental issues; conflict. |
It's angry or bitter disagreement. Two people, especially two Christians, can discuss/debate and not be bitter or angry about the differences in their fundamental beliefs, and they can even glorify God by having such debates and discussions.
I have inserted above the definition of strife where the word strife is so that you may see what it is the verses are saying.
The word debate (as a noun) means "a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward." It can also mean "an argument about a particular subject, especially one in which many people are involved."
As a verb, it means "argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner." It can also mean to "consider a possible course of action in one's mind before reaching a decision."
In every instance in the Bible where G2054 "eris" is used, it seems, at least to me, that it is used to describe a negative form of argument or dispute, and not a positive/uplifting discussion, like the one we are having now, and like the ones shown in the Bible where righteous men were involved.
Squeaky, if you truly believe that "debating" or discussing topics is wrong, and that any form of argument or discussion is bad, then first of all, you're a hypocrite because here you are doing the very thing which you think is wrong (which is a sin in and of itself, by the way), and second, you should concede this discussion by stating that you will not discuss this topic any further because you think it is wrong to debate.
The LORD said "come let us reason together," for He is the God of reason.
“Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. - Isaiah 1:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah1:18&version=NKJV
Many godly persons in the Bible debated and discussed the topics of their day.
Even the twelve Apostles and Paul had intense doctrinal disputes. Paul even confronted Peter, came down really hard on him, because Peter was misleading the Gentile converts.
Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. - Galatians 2:11-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians2:11-13&version=NKJV
Obviously, those who know the Truth, Jesus Christ, should find out what is right and teach that, even if it means getting into a debate on the issues we pursue, because promoting truth and righteousness is never wrong, and learning where your beliefs are wrong is a good thing also.
Debate for the sake of debate is wrong. Debating to find out the truth of a matter is not.
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. - Proverbs 27:17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs27:17&version=NKJV