Dead tiger bigger victim than dead man?

[MindOverMatter]

The whole thing is a tragedy, if these kids were drunk and thought it would be fun to taunt a tiger then they learnt out in the most extreme way that it isn't

It is amazing that those kids had to learn the hard way. Hey, that is part of life. But the real questions that should be asked are these: Who were their teachers? Who were their parents? Who failed to teach or warn them that there are great risks involved in such ventures? Or did someone try, but as is with the rest of this generation they ultimately refused to listen?

That being said the tiger is innocent no matter how the scenario played out, it's a wild animal and can't be held to some set of moral values regardless......

So in essence, a tiger or Lower animal runs around killing and mauling humans, and you believe that regardless of such actions, it is innocent. That is very interesting. Definitely a great intelligent and rational conclusion! :rotfl:

Well now if the tiger is innocent, then we should not have killed it? So you must be of the opinion that those who killed the tiger are guilty of committing murder? Red, why do humans even bother to kill all of those innocent lower animals who kill or injure other humans? Why are humans in the practice of killing innocent animals? What in the world is wrong with humans today? Could it be that the wild animals are not “innocent?” Could it be that the act of murdering a human is against the Law? “Oh no,” says Mr. Red, “the tiger is an innocent victim. He is a wild animal that can’t be held to some set of moral values.” :rotfl: What universe are we in again?


By the way Red, why can’t wild animals be held to “some set of moral values?”

 

[Ktoyou]

How in the world is the tiger the only victim? What in the world is going on in here? Goodness, what world is this again? Are these the highly intelligent and rational representatives of this universe? Please go and study the definition of victim. >>> Victim Both the tiger and the guys were victims.

Victim: noun: 1 : a living being sacrificed to a deity or in the performance of a religious rite
2 : one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent *the schools are victims of the social system*: as a (1) : one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions *a victim of cancer* *a victim of the auto crash* *a murder victim* (2) : one that is subjected to oppression, hardship, or mistreatment *a frequent victim of political attacks* b : one that is tricked or duped *a con man's victim*



Who says that lower animals do not have reason at all? What garbage have you all been learning? All animals have reason. The difference lies in the reason: Lower animals, beasts, and those of their kind are generally moved by reason of opportunity. In other words, a lower animal or beast will act just because the opportunity is available. Lower animals or beasts will do things just because they can.

On the other hand, highly developed beings are not supposed to be moved by opportunity alone. Highly evolved beings do not simply engage in acts just because they have the opportunity or just because they can. Anytime that you have a person who has a habit of doing things just because they can, then you should be aware that you are dealing with an individual who is very dangerous. This is because that person has devolved into the realm lower animals and beasts. And as a result of that act, if given the opportunity, he or she will behave or do those things which are specific to lower animals and beasts.

So all lower animals and beasts have reason. The difference is found in the fact that their reason is not the same as that of highly developed humans.



And so this must precludes them from being able to assume the role of victim? So regardless of whether or not they knew the tiger would escape, provoking the tiger automatically precludes the young men from assuming the role of victim? That is a new one. The definition of victim must be inaccurate. We need to tell those at Merriam Webster that they need to change their definitions for victim.



Assuredly he is.



That does not stop them from being victims. Everyone gets what is coming to them? So does this means that even victims get what is coming to them?

You have a gift of making the simple seem complex.

 

[Lighthouse]

You have a gift of making the simple seem complex.

I'm glad someone other than MindlessMatter posted, but did you have to respond to her?

 

[Ktoyou]

I'm glad someone other than MindlessMatter posted, but did you have to respond to her?

Good question, yet he (MOM) is so simple and thinks he is so clever, he leaves me laughing!

 

[zoo22]

I'm glad someone other than MindlessMatter posted, but did you have to respond to her?

Taunting the tiger, maybe. :noid:

 

[Aimey]

so very sad to think that a mans foolish game ended in his death and the humans who hear of it must debate whether or not he is a victim, or whether his attacker is more a victim than he is.

we all do stupid things, but when an agency takes responsibility for dangerous animals,and allows the public to come in and view them, they must ensure thier safety. Should we now expect there to be a sign at the gate of the zoo reading, "Enter at your own risk, and for Pete sake, do not provoke the animals!"

I am willing to guess that each one of us has found ourselves up close and personal with an animal who meant to do us some harm and were only shielded by the meager efforts of a thin fence or less. Provoked or not, If that animal gets out and hurts someone, the owner is responsible!

 

[MindOverMatter]

Are you really suggesting the tiger attacked for "no reason?"

No, the tiger attacked for a reason. Everything has a reason.


Ecclesiastes 7:25 I applied mine heart to know, and to search, and to seek out wisdom, and the reason [of things], and to know the wickedness of folly, even of foolishness [and] madness:

 

[MindOverMatter]

Do tigers need a 'reason' to attack? :idunno:

If you consider opportunity a reason, then yes. All things have a reason for doing what they do. Everything has a reason and a season.


Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

 

[MindOverMatter]

Well from the view of behavioral biology a tiger will attack either out of hunger or out of self-defense. There is a distinct difference in how tigers in the wild attack from hunger as opposed to self-defense. I am not sure how a captive tiger that is fed by zoo keepers differs in such behavior. You would have to consult someone who has more knowledge of this.

Well, maybe those in the biology department need to stop expressing those biased personal views. Maybe some of those individuals are in need of looking at things objectively so that they can update their outdated information.

 

[noguru]

Well, maybe those in the biology department need to stop expressing those biased personal views. Maybe some of those individuals are in need of looking at things objectively so that they can update their outdated information.

OK why don't you send them your ideas on the matter? Perhaps you can help them update their outdated information.

 

[MindOverMatter]

House cats attack mice just for the fun of it. The attack is neither hunger driver nor is it a self defense mechanism. :think:

That is because it is opportunity driven.

 

[zoo22]

That is because it is opportunity driven.

It's opportunity driven when a mouse shows up on the scene unannounced. It's not if a cat goes out on a mousing expedition.

Opportunity is not an all inclusive or all encompassing "reason" that animals act. Not all dogs will eat all of the food left unattended on a table. Though most want to. Despite the opportunity presented, some will opt out.

 

[Ktoyou]

Well, maybe those in the biology department need to stop expressing those biased personal views. Maybe some of those individuals are in need of looking at things objectively so that they can update their outdated information.

Look goofball, those biologists know more about their subject than you know about anything. At best, you are able to follow your own thoughts, not much else. You may impress yourself, but you never have impressed me as being other than a goof.:chew:

 

[Ktoyou]

It's opportunity driven when a mouse shows up on the scene unannounced. It's not if a cat goes out on a mousing expedition

wait, cats do go out hunting for mice, at least my cats that were more wild did.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Hey Mindless, is there a zoo near you?

Yes, are you there by any chance?

Do you own a slingshot?

With five smooth stones

I'm just sayin'..........

Are you planning an escape or something? If you are, let me tell you this Billy: MOM is not into helping wild animals break out of the zoo. Go and find one of your PETA or ALF pals.

 

[noguru]

That is because it is opportunity driven.

Opportunity

1. an appropriate or favorable time or occasion: Their meeting afforded an opportunity to exchange views.
2. a situation or condition favorable for attainment of a goal.
3. a good position, chance, or prospect, as for advancement or success.

Opportunity is not a reason. Opportunity gives a window to apply a reason.

 

[MindOverMatter]

You are correct. But the behavior more resembles a "for hunger" attack. They like to sneak up on their prey. An attack out of self defense is void of any type of sneaking up.

Well who forgot to feed the tiger human? Who is trying to starve the tigers of humans?

Animal behavior is more often than not governed by instinctual drives.

Can it still be instinctual if reason is involved?

The instinctual drive to hunt down prey is not gone from domesticated cats. It just manifests itself in other ways.

In other words, matter cannot be created or destroyed, it just changes form

 

[noguru]

Well who forgot to feed the tiger human? Who is trying to starve the tigers of humans?

The tiger was acting out of self-defense.

Can it still be instinctual if reason is involved?

Not reason like in how humans reason, but a reason. Animals have instinctual drives. Certain stimuli trigger behavior that is the result of instinctual drives.

In other words, matter cannot be created or destroyed, it just changes form

I don't think Einstien's theory of relativity or the first law of thermodynamics applies to this. But I could be wrong.

 

[schaafur]

The individual is not holy. I understand why somebody mourns more over the loss of an endangered animal than someone of a species that acts like a cancer upon Earth (hint: we grow uncontrollably, knowing this kills the organism we live on).

 

[MindOverMatter]

I think Drbrumley is trying to point out that there is a reason for any attack. It is just that as humans we might not understand the reason.

Is it so hard to concede that lower animals will be moved or provoked do something just because the opportunity presents itself? Why is it so hard for some of Us to concede that fact? Is the love for lower animals and beasts blinding our supposed objective judgment? Or maybe we don’t even care to be objective? After all, MOM is sure that many in here are aware of some people who are like that.