Dead tiger bigger victim than dead man?

[MindOverMatter]

No. But neither would I say that the tower is obviously the biggest victim (even if it was destroyed), nor would I say that my heart goes out to the electricians who "basically lost a family member." :freak:

But some will. Believe it or not, but there are those who after looking at that scenario, will feel that the tower is the biggest victim. That is just a fact of life.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Absolutely. And some seem to be tame for years and then one day....unexpectedly. Remember those two Las Vegas fags who had the Tiger show and one of them got mauled? [It's funny how quickly people's names are forgettable.....]

How is an animal attack unexpected. All the other animals in the jungle know to expect an attack from a tiger, but we don’t. That is always funny to hear ;especially, when the lower animals are supposed to be the dumb and irrational ones. It appears that some of those lower animals and beasts may be smarter that many of US. :rotfl: In that case, that would mean that many have devolved below lower animals and beasts.

Yes, that lion genuinely looks like it 'loves' its owner.

Well, just stop feeding the lion. Love it when people actually believe that their pets really “love” them. The best way to find out if your animal really loves you is this: First, stop feeding it. Don’t feed your pet for a couple of weeks; Secondly, take away its home or kick it out of the house; Thirdly, don’t allow it to have any medicine when it is ill; And lastly, allow it to be constantly hit and abused by you and various other people.

Now that is how you can find out if that lion really loves you.

Warning: For those with lions, tigers, bears, crocodiles, etc…, if you are going to try this experiment, it is required that you keep a shotgun by your side at all times. :rotfl:

I don't think lions and tigers usually attack their handlers out of hunger.

But they will attack them out of opportunity

 

[Daniel50]

I like this thread "Growing"!

 

[MindOverMatter]

I used to work in the oilfields with a fellow roustabout called "Chief." His face was hideous. It had been burned off by a propane tank explosion. He was a real good guy, despite his terrible accident. Anyway, one day when we were out in the field eating our lunches and listening to Paul Harvey on the radio, he told us that when he was little he talked his big brother into urinating on the spark plug of a running lawn mower.

Part of the "blame the mower first" crowd.

Tweedle Dee and Nancy.

By the way, they've already been referenced in this thread twice, Tweedle Dum!

The mower is partly to blame. In this reality a conclusion has at least two variables.

 

[MindOverMatter]

He also said his uncle heard about electric guitars when they first came out and made one by splicing a plugged cord onto two of the guitar strings and plugged it in.

Thanks for the info and setting me straight. From now on, I ain't trustin' nobody!

You shouldn’t trust everybody. You should always vet every single person

 

[MindOverMatter]

The tiger is definately not a victim.

How is that? >>>Victim

Victim: noun: 1 : a living being sacrificed to a deity or in the performance of a religious rite
2 : one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent *the schools are victims of the social system*: as a (1) : one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions *a victim of cancer* *a victim of the auto crash* *a murder victim* (2) : one that is subjected to oppression, hardship, or mistreatment *a frequent victim of political attacks* b : one that is tricked or duped *a con man's victim*

Human life is more valuable than any animal.

Depends on who you talk to. To some it is the other way around. Just look at the different reactions on this thread and around the country.

But if those guys were taunting that tiger, then it is just as stupid as refusing to evacuate a hurricane zone and then complaining that you were injured.

True. Don’t try to place all of the blame on someone or something else when the opportunity and a good reason is given and you refuse it. Very good point.

The tiger attacking a trainer is another issue entirely. He probably should have been put down after that.

Who… the tiger or the trainer?

But since they did not, and he was still in the zoo, it was a foolish move to aggravate him to see if he would try to attack.

The first foolish move was keeping the tiger in such a condition after it had already attacked its trainer. That should have been warning one.

On another note I am suprised he was not contained by what the zoo used for containment. They need to seriously reconsider who they are using to give them specifications on what is neccessary for tiger containment.

Had that tiger escaped from that enclosure before?

It seems more like negligence than malice. But sometimes negligence can be as harmful as malice.

So, who was more negligent: Was it not the people who decided to display the tiger and therefore placed it in the enclosure? Or was it not the people who designed and built the enclosure?

 

[johana]

How is an animal attack unexpected. All the other animals in the jungle know to expect an attack from a tiger, but we don’t. That is always funny to hear ;especially, when the lower animals are supposed to be the dumb and irrational ones. It appears that some of those lower animals and beasts may be smarter that many of US. :rotfl: In that case, that would mean that many have devolved below lower animals and beasts.

Well, just stop feeding the lion. Love it when people actually believe that their pets really “love” them. The best way to find out if your animal really loves you is this: First, stop feeding it. Don’t feed your pet for a couple of weeks; Secondly, take away its home or kick it out of the house; Thirdly, don’t allow it to have any medicine when it is ill; And lastly, allow it to be constantly hit and abused by you and various other people.

Now that is how you can find out if that lion really loves you.

Warning: For those with lions, tigers, bears, crocodiles, etc…, if you are going to try this experiment, it is required that you keep a shotgun by your side at all times. :rotfl:

But they will attack them out of opportunity

You're insane. If you got a child that really "loved" its mother and then it mother started not feeding it, not sheltering it, beating it up and getting other people to beat it up, the kids not going to be too fond of the mother any more.

You used to have some ok points and maintain some semblance of rationality but I really think you've lost it...

... I was going to point out the obvious in regards to the rest of your post but really what's the point?

 

[zoo22]

Well, just stop feeding the lion. Love it when people actually believe that their pets really “love” them. The best way to find out if your animal really loves you is this: First, stop feeding it. Don’t feed your pet for a couple of weeks; Secondly, take away its home or kick it out of the house; Thirdly, don’t allow it to have any medicine when it is ill; And lastly, allow it to be constantly hit and abused by you and various other people.

Not to be too obvious here, but ...Try that with a human. See how they love you.

I don't generally equate a human's love with an animal's love. I don't know how an animal's mind works (I don't know how a human's mind works). I don't know if they/how they love, and if they do, I don't believe it is the same as a human. But honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see many pets remain more forgiving after being treated that way than a sibling (human) would be.

Now that is how you can find out if that lion really loves you.

Uh, yeah.*

lain:

*By yeah, I mean no.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm wondering why people are surprised that tigers can get annoyed. BTW, tigers like chasing things. It's fun for them. So once they get out and realize that those bipeds are edible and will run away from them, it's open season.

Then there isn't much hope; they will remember. And probably best destroyed, or at least confined a lot better than this one was. However, the guys taunting the tiger are still to blame, at least in equal measure to the zoo.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Why is that? I think that is self-evident. What sane human does not believe human life to be more valuable than other animals?

No, not sane humans. The key is found in the words “sane” and “human.” No sane human would believe that the lives of lower animals are more valuable than the lives of highly developed humans. But at the same time, who is to say that everyone is “sane” and “human.“ :rotfl: Just look through the thread and you should see those who do not believe that human life is more valuable than the life of other lower animals and beasts.

If you notice I never said the tiger was a victim..

Well you should have. A tiger’s status as a lower animal does not preclude it from assuming the role of victim. ? >>> Victim

I pointed out the possible stupidity of the human victims. But it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that they are the victims of negligence. Negligence on their own part (possibly) and negligence on the part of the person who designed the pen to contain the tiger. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

How about negligence on the part of the individuals who decided to catch and display the tiger? How about negligence on the part of the people who for many years supported that venture?

Do I have to dramatize how distraught I am about the loss of human life before you recognize that I am compassionate?

Well noguru, it’s not really just about being compassionate. After all, everyone has some level of compassion. Just look around and you will see that to be the truth. So the question isn’t really about whether you have compassion or not.

Now, if everyone has some level of compassion, then what is this really about? Well, since everyone has some level of compassion, then what this is really about, is who or what that compassion is directed towards? Or who or what in this thread is receiving the major part of the compassion. And the truth of the matter is that if you look through the thread, the tiger is on the receiving end of most of the sympathetic sorrow or compassion. That cannot be denied.

Now, MOM is not necessarily saying that you are one of those who has more compassion for the tiger. But what you need to do is closely examine most of the other threads and you will see that there are many who do. Also, you need to go and examine the current lower animal and beast love society that we live in. Look at the money that we spend on lower animals; the luxuries that we give them; the healthcare that they receive; and finally the people who are leaving millions to dogs etc… And this is not some isolated incident. This is something that is prevalent throughout the country and it is spreading all around the world.


>>> Helmsley leaves $12 million for her dog

>>> Pet-Friendly Hotels


>>> Katrina Animals Latest


>>>Oregon lawmaker: Let's dine with dogs

The fact that I noted the stupidity of another human does not negate my empathy. Perhaps you are projecting.

True.

 

[Town Heretic]

Is that tiger dead yet? :think: If so, you can lay him over there next to the horse we all rode in on...

:crackup:

Sorry, by all means (or MOM) do continue. :noid:

 

[MindOverMatter]

I agree. The men got what was coming to them, and the only victim here was the tiger.

How in the world is the tiger the only victim? What in the world is going on in here? Goodness, what world is this again? Are these the highly intelligent and rational representatives of this universe? Please go and study the definition of victim. >>> Victim Both the tiger and the guys were victims.

Victim: noun: 1 : a living being sacrificed to a deity or in the performance of a religious rite
2 : one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent *the schools are victims of the social system*: as a (1) : one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions *a victim of cancer* *a victim of the auto crash* *a murder victim* (2) : one that is subjected to oppression, hardship, or mistreatment *a frequent victim of political attacks* b : one that is tricked or duped *a con man's victim*

Yes, human life is worth vastly more than animal life. However, human life have a vastly greater capacity of reason than animals (who don't have it at all, and go sheerly by instinct).

Who says that lower animals do not have reason at all? What garbage have you all been learning? All animals have reason. The difference lies in the reason: Lower animals, beasts, and those of their kind are generally moved by reason of opportunity. In other words, a lower animal or beast will act just because the opportunity is available. Lower animals or beasts will do things just because they can.

On the other hand, highly developed beings are not supposed to be moved by opportunity alone. Highly evolved beings do not simply engage in acts just because they have the opportunity or just because they can. Anytime that you have a person who has a habit of doing things just because they can, then you should be aware that you are dealing with an individual who is very dangerous. This is because that person has devolved into the realm lower animals and beasts. And as a result of that act, if given the opportunity, he or she will behave or do those things which are specific to lower animals and beasts.

So all lower animals and beasts have reason. The difference is found in the fact that their reason is not the same as that of highly developed humans.

They provoked the tiger, and regardless of whether or not they knew the tiger would escape, they were still doing something which they knew would, in a worst case scenario, cost them their lives. They did it anyway.

And so this must preclude them from being able to assume the role of victim? So regardless of whether or not they knew that the tiger would escape, provoking the tiger automatically precludes the young men from assuming the role of victim? That is a new one. The definition of victim must be inaccurate. We need to tell those at Merriam Webster that they need to change their definitions for victim.

If a man has sex with a whore, and gets an STD. Is he a victim? Assuredly, he is not.

Assuredly he is.

The morons had what was coming to them.

That does not stop them from being victims. Everyone gets what is coming to them? So does this means that even victims get what is coming to them?

 

[MindOverMatter]

I think you are not judging righteously when you say that.

How so? How is he not judging righteously by stating the obvious? How is he not judging righteously by say that Dave Salmoni does not believe human life to be more valuable than other animals?

Why don’t you start by closely examining the speech and the actions of the man within the context of the present environment. Then see if you don’t objectively conclude that this guy does not believe that human life is more valuable than other animals?

 

[MindOverMatter]

He said the tiger was the biggest victim because the tiger is driven by instinct more than learned behavior. So the tiger in a sense became a victim of human negligence.

:rotfl: MOM guess that if he were referring to the physical weight of the tiger as measured in pounds or grams, then you could possibly say that the tiger was the biggest victim. But then again, size is subjective, so the biggest victim is subject to individual discretion.

Anyway, judging from what we know about Mr. Salmoni, he probably was not referring to the mass of the tiger.

Secondly, how about the individuals who were killed and mauled? Are they not the victims of human negligence?

Thirdly, isn’t instinct learned behavior?

I personally do not see any animal as a victim when humans have taken the effort to take care of them to a certain level.

And so we should just throw out the current definition of the word victim? Are you saying that the act of taking care of a person or a thing automatically excludes that person or thing from assuming the role of victim? How does that work?

If we were still wild and uncivilized we probably would have eliminated this species from the earth a long time ago.

Your contention that many are not currently wild and uncivilized is still up for debate. :rotfl:

I feel the same about domesticated species that we farm. If we did not farm them, they never would have existed.

And how is that? Are you saying that the reason why those species currently exist at this point in time, is because we are in the practice of farming them? Or are you saying that the reason why those animals exist in their current form, is because we are in the practice of farming them? Or are you saying that those animals that exist, do not exist outside of the farming?

 

[MindOverMatter]

Let's suppose some drunk fool breaks into the Henry Ford Museum and steals Barney Oldfield's 999, drives it down the road while swilling gin and crashes it into a tree, totally destroying it and himself.

Would you call that drunk fool a victim? :dizzy:

Yes. Whether we like it or not the guy is still a victim. Being that victims are by definition, products of some kind of action, force, or agent, you would have to agree that the drunk fool is still a victim.

>>> VICTIM

Victim: noun: 1 : a living being sacrificed to a deity or in the performance of a religious rite
2 : one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent *the schools are victims of the social system*: as a (1) : one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions *a victim of cancer* *a victim of the auto crash* *a murder victim* (2) : one that is subjected to oppression, hardship, or mistreatment *a frequent victim of political attacks* b : one that is tricked or duped *a con man's victim*

 

[Town Heretic]

Is there a record for uninterrupted posts in a row by one TOL member? And if so, who holds it? Sorry to break your current attempt MOM. :singer:

Oh, and that tiger...still dead as a doornail.

 

[cattyfan]

Well, MOM still may hold a highest percentage record.

This is post number 277 on this thread.

49 of those posts belong to MOM...20 more than the next highest poster.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Mindless, you're not worth the bother of pointing out why you're wrong.

Koban, just be a man and say that you can’t. There is nothing wrong with admitting your shortcomings.

MOM knows that you are still watching.

 

[MindOverMatter]

koban, are you a shape-shifter?

...even if you are, you're very clean....

Yes he is. For reference, Koban is a big time shape-shifter. He’s shifted a couple of times on this whole board. And not that there is anything wrong with shifting. You might come across some new info and therefore have a very good reason for shifting. The universe is pretty fluid you know.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Would you please just go away? Nobody likes you here.

Koban, you keep telling MOM that nobody likes her. Why? Evidently you must be of the mind that MOM is worried about being liked? Poor child, let MOM tell you this: You see, MOM didn’t know that this was a popularity contest. Didn’t know that we all were here to try to win some sort of TOL popularity contest. Didn’t know that we were here to scratch each other’s itching ears with things that the other wants to hear. In fact, MOM always thought the opposite. Always thought that this was a debate forum where issues and ideas are debated. Always thought that this was a place where those who consider themselves to be intellectual, met to debate and argue with intellect and reason. Always thought that this was a place were each individual is measured on the basis of Truth, Reason and Intellect. Never knew that there was a likeability factor. And if there is a likeability factor, MOM never new that it outweighed those three areas of Truth, Reason, and Intellect. Always thought that this was a place were the people are moved and governed by rational thinking and not erational emotions.

Now, if you are correct and this is the place where likeability and emotions trump Truth, Intellect and Rational thinking, then that would explain three things:
First, why we have more people defending lower animals and beast than humans.
Secondly, why people are comprehending so little.
Thirdly, why your positions tend to switch and change with every thread.

You know Koban, you kinda sound like one of those emotional and erational weemen from New Hampshire. :rotfl:


2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.