Creation vs. Evolution

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MichaelCadry

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You think not believing in God is fun. Have fun


Hi Patrick,

It's so good to have you post again!! I wish you'd do it more often. It is a pleasure to then give you more good rep!! I always give good rep to my Theist friends here. What you do is give them the rep BEFORE you give them the Thanks. Do you know what I mean here?

Well, take good care and Enjoy Life. You'll be alive forever. Might as well enjoy it!!

Praise God!!

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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So you and Stripe aren't Christians?

You think atheists want to take argue with something they think is imaginary? Come on Michael use your head, even you should know better than that.



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Of course I know that atheists don't believe in God. But they do understand what I'm talking about. I don't need to mince words with them.

Also, I suppose Stripe is not here right now. You are ganging up on 6days, is what I meant. Of course, I'm not forgetting Stripe, or Rosenritter, patrick jane, Lon, etc. They aren't online right now or else they would be helping 6days out. Before I came on, he was handling you all by himself, and doing a wonderful job at that.

Michael
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
You're the one who needs medication, SH!! What you really are going to need is a great pain pill for where you are going. Something for burns. How about, you are an idiot??! See, it's easy to call someone that. Does it accomplish anything? Not really, even though you ARE!! You can't stand getting embarrassed by 6days. All of you atheists gang up on ONE Christian. How noble of you all? How fair?

I will say, you're in a sad state of affairs. You really should look at yourself and figure out where you went wrong. What, you want to take on God in an argument?? How ridiculous. Have tons of fun!!
Mike, I checked with a doctor and she said that it is VERY important that you take your medication EXACTLY as perscribed, in the correct dose and at the correct time. Do this and she said you WILL get better, she promised.

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Silent Hunter

Well-known member
We were discussing how archaeology helps confirm the accuracy of God's Word. You thought you might have a better chance if you jump to cosmology. Again.....archarology helps confirm the accuracy of people, places and events in the Bible.
Well, actually, no. I was just illustrating your hypocrisy. Archaeology "confirms" the bible to the same extent that archaeology confirms places mentioned in the Iliad. I'd really like to hear how archaeology confirms "events" (that's "the story being told" for those of you from Rio Linda) in the bible.
You seemed to think "thousands of scientists" was a convincing argument.
But when "thousands of scientists" agree with you that's different, right?
My "argument" is that God's Word is inerrant. Opinions of those who contradict scripture are always wrong. Archaeology has often proven the skeptics opinions wrong.
So, when archaeology contradicts "scripture" it's wrong because you believe the bible is always right. I'm going to make a guess but isn't there a logical fallacy in your "argument"?
You are confusing science with secular opinions.
Yeah, the expert opinion of all those archaeologists who disagree with you are nonsense but if they agree with you they're scientists. Odd logic you use there, 6.
Except archaeologists and historians don't claim archaeology helps confirm the historical accuracy of the Illiadd. Your argument is silly.
Sure they did. Until Troy was discovered in the early 1800 the Iliad was thought to be pure myth.
Archaeology does help confirm that people, places and events in the Bible are accurate.
Except when it doesn't.
What I said is 100% accurate. You misrepresented.
No. That's what you did. He didn't say that. "Historicity of Old Testament tradition" is not the same thing as "confirm the accuracy of scripture", not by a long shot. Why do you insist on gagging people by stuffing so many words into their mouths?

Do you EVER check your facts or do you just blindly accept what creationist web sites say then cut and paste?
Here is another archaeologist discussing how archaeology helps confirm the accuracy of scripture.
"There have been plenty of claims that things contradict the biblical account, but the Bible has a habit of being proved right after all. I well remember one of the world’s leading archaeologists at Gezer rebuking a younger archaeologist who was ‘rubbishing’ the Bible. He just quietly said, ‘Well, if I were you, I wouldn’t rubbish the Bible.’ When the younger archaeologist asked ‘Why’?, he replied, ‘Well, it just has a habit of proving to be right after all.’ And that’s where I stand.

"Professor Nelson Glueck, who I suppose would be recognized as one of the top five of the ‘greats’ in biblical archaeology, gave a marvellous lecture to 120 American students who were interacting with the Arabs. He said, ‘I have excavated for 30 years with a Bible in one hand and a trowel in the other, and in matters of historical perspective, I have never yet found the Bible to be in error’.

"Professor G. Ernest Wright, Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Studies at Harvard University, gave a lecture at that same dig. He made the point that (because of the researches associated with the Hittites and the findings of Professor George Mendenhall concerning what are called the Suzerainty Covenant Treaties between the Hittite kings and their vassals) it had become clear that the records of Moses, when dealing with covenants, must be dated back to the middle of the second millennium BC. That’s about 1500 BC. Also, that those writings should be recognized as a unity. In other words, they go back to one man. That one man could only be Moses.

"I went to Professor Wright later and said, ‘Sir, this is very different from what you’ve been putting out in your own writings.’ He looked at me and said, ‘Clifford, for 30 years I’ve been teaching students coming to Harvard to train for the Christian ministry; I’ve been telling them they could forget Moses in the Pentateuch, but at least in these significant areas of the covenant documents that are there in the Pentateuch, I’ve had to admit that I was wrong.’

"They were two scholastic giants. One says, ‘I’ve excavated for 30 years and I’ve never found the Bible to be in error’—basically that’s what he was saying. The other says, ‘For 30 years I’ve been wrong.’ It’s rather sad, isn’t it, that a good man such as Professor Wright had been so swept along with the ridiculous documentary hypothesis* that he had taken a wrong stand for so long. Let me stress that Professor Wright was a man of the highest integrity."
Dr. Clifford Olson.http://creation.mobi/archaeologist-confirms-creation-and-the-bible
So, that would be, "No", to fact checking and, "Yes", to blindly accept what creationist web sites say then cut and paste. Check.

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Rosenritter

New member
Hi Patrick,

It's so good to have you post again!! I wish you'd do it more often. It is a pleasure to then give you more good rep!! I always give good rep to my Theist friends here. What you do is give them the rep BEFORE you give them the Thanks. Do you know what I mean here?

Well, take good care and Enjoy Life. You'll be alive forever. Might as well enjoy it!!

Praise God!!

Michael

I missed the bowl haircut and buckteeth.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Mike, I checked with a doctor and she said that it is VERY important that you take your medication EXACTLY as perscribed, in the correct dose and at the correct time. Do this and she said you WILL get better, she promised.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


Hey Silent,

You're the one who needs medication. You just copied and pasted this response from one reply you made a couple pages earlier here. How original and Silly!!

Michael
 

Rosenritter

New member
So the 22000 is accurate when attempting to challenge evolutionary timelines, but not accurate when defending biblical timelines? Got it.

You're a numpty, 6days.

Are you familiar with a concept in mathematics called "Order of Magnitude?" Millions of years is of a different order of magnitude than thousands of years.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Nobody, and I mean Nobody, who understands that the Theory of Evolution is correct thinks that any particular creatures or group of creatures suddenly changed into something else.

Punctuated equilibrium

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Punctuated equilibrium
(also called punctuated equilibria) is a theory in evolutionary biology which proposes that once species appear in the fossil record they will become stable, showing little net evolutionary change for most of their geological history. This state is called stasis. When significant evolutionary change occurs, the theory proposes that it is generally restricted to rare and geologically rapid events of branching speciation called cladogenesis. Cladogenesis is the process by which a species splits into two distinct species, rather than one species gradually transforming into another.[1]


Punctuated equilibrium is commonly contrasted against phyletic gradualism, the belief that evolution generally occurs uniformly and by the steady and gradual transformation of whole lineages (called anagenesis). In this view, evolution is seen as generally smooth and continuous. In 1972, paleontologists Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould published a landmark paper developing their theory and called it punctuated equilibria.[2]



Sounds like "suddenly changed into something else" (at least on so-called "geologic" timescale. It is a very ingenious way of getting around the lack of transitional fossil record. There's no links because when they did change they changed so fast that they didn't leave any traces. But isn't that assuming what you want to prove, then making a reason why the evidence is missing? Very "scientific" this theory is.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
You're the one who needs medication. You just copied and pasted this response from one reply you made a couple pages earlier here. How original and Silly!!
... said the person who doesn't have the cognitive ability tocheck if he's being duped by a ten year old hoax. That's not just silly, it's stupidity.
Patrick knows you're the one taking medication!
Pat just forgot the location of the M and C keys. He's since corrected himself.
Like I said earlier, you're going to NEED quite a strong painkiller where you are going. Sunscreen just won't do, either!!
... and how do you know that you're not being duped by yet another elaborate hoax?
I wasn't taken in by anything. You'd have to see a picture of them. It's actually true! Like I said, 'Google it.'
Been there, done that...
http://www.snopes.com/religion/redsea.asp
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/explor...riot-wheels-in-the-red-sea-hoax-persists.html
https://www.truthorfiction.com/chariot-wheels/

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Rosenritter

New member
Thsi is not connected to translations. I use the Hebrew (KJV is not "mine"- I only use it because most here don't know Hebrew).
Read II Samuel 21:19. Then let's talk about Goliath.

Archaeologists are aware of the rural population as well. There are remains from some of these- there have been surveys done (mostly by Adam Zertal's group). There weren't such large populations in Canaan at that time. Not by a long shot. Really.

You are one step behind Chair. The original Goliath is already famous by this point, and the Hebrews are dealing with the rest of the giants.

2 Samuel 21:18-21 KJV
(18) And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.
(19) And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
(20) And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
(21) And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him.


1 Chronicles 20:4-7 KJV
(4) And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.
(5) And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam.
(6) And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot: and he also was the son of the giant.
(7) But when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea David's brother slew him.

No dispute that David slew the original Goliath. After it's been done once the rest of them are easy by comparison I suppose.


At the risk of drawing the "straw man" argument flag, I predict that you will pull from a translation that botched the passage in 2 Samuel, and then proceed to make a case on said botched translation. That or you will attempt to apply your own personal "superior translation skills" on the Masoretic text. I am aware of quite a few errors in Old Testament translation that are cited by atheists and Muslim apologists. Said arguments depend on picking flawed translation from the start.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
You are one step behind Chair. The original Goliath is already famous by this point, and the Hebrews are dealing with the rest of the giants.

2 Samuel 21:18-21 KJV
(18) And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.
(19) And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
(20) And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
(21) And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him.


1 Chronicles 20:4-7 KJV
(4) And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.
(5) And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam.
(6) And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot: and he also was the son of the giant.
(7) But when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea David's brother slew him.

No dispute that David slew the original Goliath. After it's been done once the rest of them are easy by comparison I suppose.


At the risk of drawing the "straw man" argument flag, I predict that you will pull from a translation that botched the passage in 2 Samuel, and then proceed to make a case on said botched translation. That or you will attempt to apply your own personal "superior translation skills" on the Masoretic text. I am aware of quite a few errors in Old Testament translation that are cited by atheists and Muslim apologists. Said arguments depend on picking flawed translation from the start.
Great job beating up on your own strawman. Chair never denied David killed Goliath. You would do well to go back and READ what he ACTUALLY wrote.

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Silent Hunter

Well-known member
You don't need an archaeologist to "find" examples of mismatch between the Biblical account and facts on the ground. Jericho is a famous example. The city was destroyed before the Israelites showed up.

That is just one example. There are other well-known difficulties with the Biblical text. How many people left Egypt in the Exodus? The Bible says 600,000 men of fighting age. This implies a total population of several millions. That is a huge number of people for that period. We can estimate how many people lived in Canaan at the time, from the ruins. The oountry simily could not support so many people.

There are things that archaeology has proven. My favorite example is that of the altar on Mount Ebal, tough there is controversy regarding that as well.

The Bible in inconsistent. Who killed Goliath?- depends what chapter you read. Where did David take Goliaths head after the battle? Jerusalem- but it hadn't been conquered yet.` How did Saul first meet David? David the warrior who played the harp for him, or David the shepherd with no battle experience who went on to defeat Goliath?

Read the Bible. Pay attention to the details. You will learn something.

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MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
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Hey Silent,

There has been some proof that the army of Egypt was swallowed up by the sea when God parted the waters for the Israelites to cross. They have found chariot wheels preserved on the ocean floor. Check it out! You find the info. I'm not going to do your work for you. Try Googling "chariot wheels" or something like that. You'll think of something. Anyway, it is true. The Exodus did happen.

It's Been Thrilling,

Michael


Dear SH,

This got lost in the dust because of the lack of 'end quote.' Just thought you'd like to know. I believe they said that the chariot wheels that they found were part wood and part metal.

Michael
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
This got lost in the dust because of the lack of 'end quote.' Just thought you'd like to know. I believe they said that the chariot wheels that they found were part wood and part metal.
Yeah, I read it. Did you ignore these:
http://www.snopes.com/religion/redsea.asp
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/explor...riot-wheels-in-the-red-sea-hoax-persists.html
https://www.truthorfiction.com/chariot-wheels/
... and did you skip your evening meds again?

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Rosenritter

New member
Great job beating up on your own strawman. Chair never denied David killed Goliath. You would do well to go back and READ what he ACTUALLY wrote.

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Ah, but Hunter who will not be Silent, I am a step ahead of him here. He was about to claim that someone else killed the same Goliath. The point was to save some board space, but alas, your hubris of wanting to see yourself post just ruined that attempt at conservation.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
I am a step ahead of him here. He was about to claim that someone else killed the same Goliath. The point was to save some board space, but alas, your hubris of wanting to see yourself post just ruined that attempt at conservation.
I'm willing to guess that you aren't an expert on Hebrew and Hebrew manuscripts, have never formally studied them, can't read Hebrew, and are relying on your cut and paste expertise from apologetic web sites to make your case, am I right? Whereas Chair IS an expert, does speak and read Hebrew and really does know that of which he speaks. I think that I can safely play the "you lose" card here without any risk whatsoever.

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