Creation vs. Evolution

[Caino]

God used sinful, normal men who believed in Him.*

All scripture is God breathed.



God tells us He spread the heavens. How long do you think that took Him? Do you think God is capable of spreading the heavens faster than the speed of light? The omnipotent Creator made the stars for us to see. Surely He is capable of bringing distant starlight to earth.*

Yes, the distant star light travels at the speed of Light. That's how we get an idea how old those objects are. Then there are data sets based on radioactive decay rates and such.

But you are about God doing things to fit the Hebrews creation story to validate your idolatrous theory.

 

[6days]

Do you reckon you understand it?

I reckon I understand it better than you... which still might not be much.

Funny / sad / strange that evolutionists believe so much that is contrary to the evidence. Mutations do not create. Mutations destroy. For ex......A mutation might give you a bigger brain...*http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hydrocephalic

Mutations, as the name suggests, neither create, nor destroy --> they change

False. Mutations destroy pre-existing info. Mutations destroy and hurt lives.*

I realize that you refuse to make use of your brain, that's a shame.

I like this definition of ad hominem...

"An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence" (Urban Dictionary)

But in case you were wondering, as it turns out, the main genetic change that triggered the increase in hominid brain size was the shutting-down of a gene that counters the development of brain cancer. Pretty cool, ehI realize that you refuse to make use of your brain, that's a shame.

Ha...aren't you the funny man. Evolutionists are baffled and continually are coming up with new ideas trying to shoehorn evidence of our larger brain to fit evolutionary beliefs (eg. Expensive tissue hypothesis.... or maybe it had to do with eating cooked foods...etc etc).

The best explanation that fits the evidence for robust humans is..."In the beginning, God created..."

 

[6days]

But you are about God doing things to fit the Hebrews creation story to validate your idolatrous theory.

Im about believing what He told us.

 

[Jose Fly]

Mutations destroy and hurt lives.

Except when they don't...

BERKELEY, CA � Researchers at the U.S. Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory have discovered the mechanism by which an extremely rare protein mutation shields people from cardiovascular disease.​

 

[Husband&Father]

...don't tell me he's somehow not responsible for our fate.

A god who creates man with free will (including the ability to sin and do evil) is not logically impossible.

You may think that any god who creates man must then take responsibility for man's fate. But a god powerful enough to create could create a being who is responsible for himself.

If God managed your fate you would not be a free being. God chose to make men free. Your fate largely depends on choices you make.
God created man and God created choices and God gave man the ability to make choices which have consequences.

 

[Husband&Father]

Your god is supposed to be omniscient, don't tell me he's somehow not responsible for our fate.

Given all the cruelty and suffering in nature, that's still better than your afterlife options.

TheDuke: Hey god, your supposed to be omniscient, don't tell me your not somehow responsible for my fate.

God (Dut 30:19):
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

 

[6days]

Except when they don't

Your argument is with Duke.

 

[Jose Fly]

Your argument is with Duke.

Duke says, "Mutations, as the name suggests, neither create, nor destroy --> they change", and you respond, "Mutations destroy and hurt lives".

In response, I post an example of mutation protecting people from heart disease, thereby refuting your assertion.

So how is my argument with Duke? :idunno:

 

[6days]

.

So how is my argument with Duke? :idunno:

Implicit in your wording was an agreement that mutations do destroy.... you said "except when they don't"

 

[Jose Fly]

Implicit in your wording was an agreement that mutations do destroy.... you said "except when they don't"

Sheesh 6days.....

This is very simple. There are examples of mutations conferring definite benefits to organisms, such as the one I posted about. Thus, mutations increasing fitness is a directly observed fact.

Now you just need to incorporate that into your "Biblical model of creation" (whatever it is on this given day) that you also admit is a religious belief and not science.

 

[Daniel1769]

I find it amusing that things like the Milano protein mutation are somehow used as proof of Macroevolution. Evolution insists that a single celled organism of some sort somehow evolved into modern animals and humans over billions of years, and they grasp at things like the Milano mutation as proof. One would think they would have significant proof for their bold claims. But they don't. They grasp at straws.

 

[6days]

This is very simple. There are examples of mutations conferring definite benefits to organisms, such as the one I posted about. Thus, mutations increasing fitness is a directly observed fact.

Hello?..... Anybody home? Jose...the argument from Duke was that mutations don't destroy. It seems you wish to move the goalposts rather than admit a fellow evolutionist doesn't understand science. Yes, some mutations have a beneficial outcome but that wasn't the argument.*


BTW...I posted this on the topic just days ago...

"...even so called "beneficial" mutations usually, and possibly always are a result of a mutation destroying pre-existing genetic. For example a mutation could destroy the specificity of an enzyme, allowing a beneficial outcome. Loss of information again is the opposite of what evolutionism needs.

Another reason your belief fails is that the rare mutation that causes a beneficial outcome is only one out of hundreds of deleterious mutations. Our genome is crumbling at a much higher rate than selection can keep up with. Geneticists are concerned about high mutational burden..... Not a single geneticist thinks that mutations with a beneficial outcome is going to save the human race.

The evidence is consistent with God's Word. We were "wonderfully made" but live in a fallen world where death, pain, and suffering exist. As Christians we look forward to that time when He shall wipe every tear, and death no longer exists."

 

[Tyrathca]

I find it amusing that things like the Milano protein mutation are somehow used as proof of Macroevolution. Evolution insists that a single celled organism of some sort somehow evolved into modern animals and humans over billions of years, and they grasp at things like the Milano mutation as proof. One would think they would have significant proof for their bold claims. But they don't. They grasp at straws.

We don't need to count to it as proof, we've long moved past trying to collect evidence for the purpose of convincing creationists. That you don't pay attention (or blatantly ignore more likely) to the long standing evidence is not our fault it is yours.

 

[6days]

We don't need to count to it as proof, we've long moved past trying to collect evidence for the purpose of convincing creationist.

True sort of. Evolutionists are so committed to their worldview that evidence does not matter. What matters in evolutionism is explaining things to fit the data, even if the explanation is absurd. What matters is preserving that worldview.*

Example.... Evolutionists often say poor design....and good design are both evidence for their 'theory'.* So, really the evidence of design or functionality does not matter. As Lewontin says, evolutionism is often 'just so' stories.

 

[patrick jane]

Here's another excellent bit of videography

Hope all our dear YECs are listening. Use your valuable and limited time in life looking in real sources for knowledge!

the science in ID

God said it, I believe it, that settles it.

 

[alwight]

True sort of. Evolutionists are so committed to their worldview that evidence does not matter. What matters in evolutionism is explaining things to fit the data, even if the explanation is absurd. What matters is preserving that worldview.*

More creationist claptrap. Your only concern is to mindlessly adhere to Genesis whatever science and reality indicates.

Example.... Evolutionists often say poor design....and good design are both evidence for their 'theory'.* So, really the evidence of design or functionality does not matter. As Lewontin says, evolutionism is often 'just so' stories.

Natural selection weeds out the functional from the non-functional, no design required.
This is often a tough harsh natural world, I at least see no signs of a magical design in diseases and "acts of God". Why aren't diseases examples "poor design"?
Oh but I forgot about your convenient original sin dogma again, darn. :AMR:

 

[MichaelCadry]

More creationist claptrap. Your only concern is to mindlessly adhere to Genesis whatever science and reality indicates.

Natural selection weeds out the functional from the non-functional, no design required.
This is often a tough harsh natural world, I at least see no signs of a magical design in diseases and "acts of God". Why aren't diseases examples "poor design"?
Oh but I forgot about your convenient original sin dogma again, darn. :AMR:

Dear alwight,

I'm having computer difficulties right now, so bear with me. I have to keep starting my computer off and on, trying to get it to work better. Maybe time to take it apart and vacuum and dust out of the fan area, or just buy a new computer, if that doesn't work. Anyways, I am not trying to ignore everyone. BTW alwight, one of the things 6days and I have tried not to bring up is diseases and the devil, Satan. I know you don't believe in God so I don't see you believing in Satan either, but you should wonder where your wrong ideas come from. They come from the same places diseases come from ... the devil, Satan. God created an opposite of Himself so that any who don't want to believe in Him, or His Way, can believe the opposite. Thus, it is Satan, and many of you here on this site are plagued by him. We have not brought this up before because we knew you wouldn't believe it. That doesn't make the fact of it go away. You all are playing with actual fire and you don't know the half of it.

There is a hell. It is the bottomless pit. Inside the Earth, there is a center. There is also a top. Everyone thinks they are on top, because of gravity. So there is no bottom to earth, symbolically, but there is a top and a center. There is magma and hot, molten lava there. It is very hot. This is where certain souls go to. Those whom God deems. I don't want to go into it any more for now. You won't believe what I have to say anyways. But all of you who don't believe in God or Jesus should REALLY think twice, for you have no idea about your fate when you die. God created spirit and souls so that they don't die. You just don't understand because you are not a very advanced pupil of God, Jesus and Christianity/religion. You don't know TONS of stuff that you should know if you are to make a logical conclusion about whether Christ is right or a mistake. Oh, why do you think that 6days, patrick jane, myself and others try so extremely hard to steer you away from a fate worse than death??? We just haven't said nothing about it. We just figured if you didn't believe in God, then you wouldn't believe in Lucifer, or Satan. You really have some hard lessons to learn yet.

God gave it over to Satan to have control over 1/4 of the Earth, and he causes tares, or weeds, murders, diseases, injustice, stealing, jeaousy, lying, adultery, fornication, Darwin's false ideas, including evolution, confusion, coveting, harming, deceiving, and all manner of other things besides. You really don't know what is going on, alwight, or you'd be in a better position to make a significant choice in your eternal future. It is not, you die, and you sleep forever, or you never live again. That's not the way it is!! You aren't going to die and never live again. Keep dreaming!! You need to make some hard choices. We're only trying to help. OK, I'll get going for now. But the only thing that will get Stuu, DavisBJ, TheDuke, Hedshaker, gcthomas, you and others, is to face a fate worse than death for a few thousand years. The fire is extremely hot, but the sun's heat is hotter. That's the Lake of Fire and that is a permanent 'Hell.' And lightning is 5 or 8 times hotter than the sun. I can't remember which, but it's hot! Something for you to really think about. I'm not trying to be the party crasher, but that's how the ball bounces.

God Be With You Instead Of The Devil,

Michael

 

[Jonahdog]

True sort of. Evolutionists are so committed to their worldview that evidence does not matter. What matters in evolutionism is explaining things to fit the data, even if the explanation is absurd. What matters is preserving that worldview.*

Example.... Evolutionists often say poor design....and good design are both evidence for their 'theory'.* So, really the evidence of design or functionality does not matter. As Lewontin says, evolutionism is often 'just so' stories.

Lewontin a creationist? Ah, don't think so. More quote mining to support a bankrupt creationist position.

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

I'm having computer difficulties right now, so bear with me. I have to keep starting my computer off and on, trying to get it to work better. Maybe time to take it apart and vacuum and dust out of the fan area, or just buy a new computer, if that doesn't work. Anyways, I am not trying to ignore everyone. BTW alwight, one of the things 6days and I have tried not to bring up is diseases and the devil, Satan. I know you don't believe in God so I don't see you believing in Satan either, but you should wonder where your wrong ideas come from. They come from the same places diseases come from ... the devil, Satan. God created an opposite of Himself so that any who don't want to believe in Him, or His Way, can believe the opposite. Thus, it is Satan, and many of you here on this site are plagued by him. We have not brought this up before because we knew you wouldn't believe it. That doesn't make the fact of it go away. You all are playing with actual fire and you don't know the half of it.

Hi Michael, it seems to me that blaming the devil is simply something that you inevitably will have as part of your whole religious scenario. Your God requires there to be an arch-enemy to blame therefore religion creates Satan. No I don't believe it because in all probability it just isn't true, why should it be, it just has no rationality. A super being that exists simply to be evil just for the added glory of your God, presumably having no choice in the matter to be anything else is frankly a ridiculous idea.
Why bother looking for a rational reason for your computer problems, just blame the Devil. :doh:

There is a hell. It is the bottomless pit. Inside the Earth, there is a center. There is also a top. Everyone thinks they are on top, because of gravity. So there is no bottom to earth, symbolically, but there is a top and a center. There is magma and hot, molten lava there. It is very hot. This is where certain souls go to. Those whom God deems. I don't want to go into it any more for now. You won't believe what I have to say anyways. But all of you who don't believe in God or Jesus should REALLY think twice, for you have no idea about your fate when you die. God created spirit and souls so that they don't die. You just don't understand because you are not a very advanced pupil of God, Jesus and Christianity/religion. You don't know TONS of stuff that you should know if you are to make a logical conclusion about whether Christ is right or a mistake. Oh, why do you think that 6days, patrick jane, myself and others try so extremely hard to steer you away from a fate worse than death??? We just haven't said nothing about it. We just figured if you didn't believe in God, then you wouldn't believe in Lucifer, or Satan. You really have some hard lessons to learn yet.

Talking of ridiculous ideas. If you actually think that any of this nonsense is at all convincing and rational to me then frankly I feel that my intelligence is insulted. I might possibly consider a mythical supernatural realm perhaps in another dimension or universe but the Earth is a rocky planet of which the universe will undoubtable have many billions of.

God gave it over to Satan to have control over 1/4 of the Earth, and he causes tares, or weeds, murders, diseases, injustice, stealing, jeaousy, lying, adultery, fornication, Darwin's false ideas, including evolution, confusion, coveting, harming, deceiving, and all manner of other things besides. You really don't know what is going on, alwight, or you'd be in a better position to make a significant choice in your eternal future. It is not, you die, and you sleep forever, or you never live again. That's not the way it is!! You aren't going to die and never live again. Keep dreaming!! You need to make some hard choices. We're only trying to help. OK, I'll get going for now. But the only thing that will get Stuu, DavisBJ, TheDuke, Hedshaker, gcthomas, you and others, is to face a fate worse than death for a few thousand years. The fire is extremely hot, but the sun's heat is hotter. That's the Lake of Fire and that is a permanent 'Hell.' And lightning is 5 or 8 times hotter than the sun. I can't remember which, but it's hot! Something for you to really think about. I'm not trying to be the party crasher, but that's how the ball bounces.

God Be With You Instead Of The Devil,

Michael

Michael, Michael, dear me, you have apparently bought into the whole carrot and stick middle ages thinking thing here, hook line and sinker, where religion once controlled the people by fear, demons and witches too perhaps?
Thunder is not God moving the furniture around, physical reality can largely be scientifically explained today. There is absolutely no need for such daft superstitious mumbo jumbo, nobody is going to burn eternally in a lake of fire. I just can't believe that you or anyone could actually believe in such utter codswallop. :nono:

 

[TheDuke]

I reckon I understand it better than you... which still might not be much.

Ooooo, haven't been talked to like that since on the playground in elementary...
But at least thanks for your honesty, good to know that you are fully aware of your ignorance on the subject!

False. Mutations destroy pre-existing info. Mutations destroy and hurt lives.

Aha, I see you have become a fan of spotting fallacies, right. So allow me to introduce you to a site of reference.
In this case, https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion
Hold on, does that mean your god cannot (???) cause beneficial mutations?

I like this definition of ad hominem...

"An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence" (Urban Dictionary)

Too bad you don't read/understand the very definition you provide. Otherwise you'd be able to tell a fallacy from an insult

The best explanation that fits the evidence for robust humans is..."In the beginning, God created..."

While I'm somewhat uncertain what a "robust human" is, I'm yet again glad that you are being so honest in admitting utter lack of curiosity about the world due to self-inflicted dogma
Centuries ago, people like yourself said exactly the same about the rainbow. How lucky we are that not everyone shared the mindset.