Creation vs. Evolution

[TheDuke]

It's time for another round of "spot the contradiction"


Is the god of the bible honest?
Well judge for yourself:

In many places, such as Hebrews 6:18 it's obviously stated that God is incapable of lying.
In many other places, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:11 it's obviously stated that he lies.



Are the commandments binding?
Well judge for yourself:

In many places, such as Ecclesiastes 12:13 it's obviously stated that the good old stuff still holds.
In many other places, such as Ephesians 2:15 it's obviously stated that now we can forget about them.



Do we have free will?
Well judge for yourself:

In many places, such as 2 Timothy 1:9 it's obviously stated that our fates are given long before we are even born.
In many other places, well honestly, I wasn't able to find any references for us having "free will". That's very strange indeed.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael,
You still seem to be missing the point whenever you can I notice. The evidence I was referring to was all contemporaneous to the time of Julius Caesar, not modern mass produced symbols of faith. Iow all made by people who either knew Caesar directly or who were living under his rule day to day, which counts as real evidence. Even the graffiti scratched onto walls by serving Roman soldiers at the time is good evidence.
It's nothing to do with all the later or more modern religious paraphernalia of Jesus which isn't evidence of anything. This is about real facts and evidence from the time, not how many people today own mass produced images of Jesus Christ. It's about verifiable contemporary evidence, not how many people today believe and have supposed pictures and images of Jesus even though, unlike Caesar, there is no evidence of what he actually looked like nor that he even did exist.

Dear Alwight,

I will answer this again. Caesar was a king on Earth. Jesus' kingdom will be in Heaven. Caesar had his likeness on coins and busts, and statues, but look now and see how Jesus Christ beats Caesar flat, without a little question. Jesus is much more famous than any man on Earth. Before or after the Flood. He is GREAT!! Tons of people follow after Him and His Words, to say the least. I don't want to hear about Julius Caesar anymore. It's laughable, alwight!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Using a more secular and scientific reasoning Gospel John is thought to be the last one written of the four and well after the supposed events took place. The author's name is not known and like the three synoptic gospels is thought to use the name associated only as a convenience, not because an actual eye witness or disciple of Jesus actually wrote it. Thomas might well be an eye witness had he ever written about it but later hearsay by someone else just doesn't count.

Dear alwight,

We believe the author of the book of John was written by John. You don't know who wrote it, do you?? You haven't the slightest idea. Same with the other books of the Bible. Who are you to know who wrote what. You barely peruse the Bible in ten years! You don't know what is going on inside the Bible. You feel it's too time-consuming to read it. You have to start with learning just a few verses each week or day, it's up to you. Soon, you will learn stuff that's in there. You really need to go to church and go to Sunday School. They will help you to know which verses to learn initially and after that. Otherwise, you don't have much knowledge about the Bible than what you can get off the Internet. One book collecting dust. Do you even own a Bible??

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

"Jesus", or more accurately "Yeshua" or "Yehoshua", was the most common name given to boys in the region when and where Jesus Christ was born. He was certainly not the first to receive such a name. It was kind of like being named John today. Very common

Dear Greg,

Where's your proof? I doubt there were children Jesus' age or over, that had the name Jesus. It was bestowed upon Him by God. Any qualms with that?

How was your New Year's Eve and Day this year?? I hope it was wonderful!! Mine was excellent. It's going to be any interesting year.

Much Love And Best Wishes,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'll try this again:

Every generation produces (at best) a tiny tiny change in any animal. You seem to think that at some point a momma ape just plopped out a baby human. That's far from how evolution works. Best case scenario, an ape could never turn into a human in less than hundreds of thousands of generations. And absolutely the shortest any generation would take for hominids is 13 years. So with those estimates, the very earliest that an ape could turn into a human would be 13 x (X)100,000. That's a minimum of 1.3 million years. And that's an absolute minimum in a repeating best case scenario for 100,000 generations in a row. In reality it would take much much longer because the best case scenario almost never happens in nature

Dear Greg,

We should still be able to see some kind of change in various stages each, of chimps/apes morphing into humans. No matter what you figure, there are some in the midst of changing. They all don't change in an instant, but we should be able to see or discover them changing in different stages from apes to man. How better can I explain it to you?

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'll try this again:

Every generation produces (at best) a tiny tiny change in any animal. You seem to think that at some point a momma ape just plopped out a baby human. That's far from how evolution works. Best case scenario, an ape could never turn into a human in less than hundreds of thousands of generations. And absolutely the shortest any generation would take for hominids is 13 years. So with those estimates, the very earliest that an ape could turn into a human would be 13 x (X)100,000. That's a minimum of 1.3 million years. And that's an absolute minimum in a repeating best case scenario for 100,000 generations in a row. In reality it would take much much longer because the best case scenario almost never happens in nature

Dear Greg,

Just one other thing here. If an 'ape' changed just a bit every generation, then we should, as humans, have noticed a half-ape, half man by now. You see, there would be thousands or more of apes changing at some point at any time. Even little changes add up over a few centuries. Man would have made note of it and we should have some apes now in one of the 'stages'/bitty changes. But there is none. All of the apes look the same. The most they do is sometimes be white apes. That's it. I'm tired of trying to explain this, so I think this is it. You don't seem to see the whole picture at all. Out of thousands of apes now, we should see changes in many of them at certain points in their genesis of change.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dearest 6d,

Welcome and congratulations for joining Michael on the stage. You 2 would make quite a show as stand-up comedians.

I admire your determination in defending the indefensible to the bitter end. That's the spirit.


So, does that mean that you reject the holy truth of the Quran? You are the worst infidel. The Quran is absolutely sublime and perfect. It contains nothing but God's word.

Your petty bible is absurd, you even admit it yourself:
"written by over 40 authors"
Seriously, the supposed word of the divine, transcribed by mere mortals, over a period of "1500 years". Redacted, mistranslated and edited time after time. It cannot - by your own admission - be divine, but clearly man-made.

The holy Quran in contrast, was written down by a single illiterate person. How do you imagine that could be without god's own hand guiding his messenger to write down the absolute truth?


Just look at these random examples:
Proverbs 1:7 - So you can't learn anything, unless you're scared of your saviour????? Gee, no wonder most scientists don't believe :shocked:

Genesis 2:19-20 - So, all other animals were created male and female, but the poor Adam was all alone..... no wonder he was spiteful And then he named the animals, oh how cute. Except that every animal has a different name in every language and obviously Adam didn't bother with all the species discovered during the last couple of centuries, eh

James 5:14-18 - So, prayer heals all sickness and controls the climate. Gee, I wonder why we even bother with medicine and meteorology.....



Until next time, boys.......

Dear TheDuke,'

What a bunch of nonsense. Don't post gibberish. Do you think the Koran was solely written by Mohamed? It was written by many Arabic scholars, most likely. In the Koran, it says that the 'jinn' {devils} are made of fire, and then our Bible says the devils will burn in Hell for awhile. So how can fire hurt fire?? It doesn't make any sense. How would the jinn, who are 'made' of fire, have to worry about being burned up in fire make any sense?? The prophet is also an divorcee and adulterer. That is interesting. They also believe Mohamed is greater than Jesus. Another big, huge mistake! Enough. It's almost 4a.m. here.

Michael

 

[gcthomas]

Dear Greg,

Just one other thing here. If an 'ape' changed just a bit every generation, then we should, as humans, have noticed a half-ape, half man by now. You see, there would be thousands or more of apes changing at some point at any time. Even little changes add up over a few centuries. Man would have made note of it and we should have some apes now in one of the 'stages'/bitty changes. But there is none. All of the apes look the same. The most they do is sometimes be white apes. That's it. I'm tired of trying to explain this, so I think this is it. You don't seem to see the whole picture at all. Out of thousands of apes now, we should see changes in many of them at certain points in their genesis of change.

Michael

Michael, I wouldn't expect to see your cousins turning into ½ cousin - ½ Michael hybrids either. The link between you and your cousins are historical, and the differences between you all happened in the past when each ancestor was born slightly different from their parents.

Chimps are our distant cousins and the differences have built up as each generation of children was slightly different from their parents and grand-parents. My children are different from me, and I expect my great-great-grandchildren to be even more different. But I don't expect to turn into my cousin in my own lifetime.

Please, Michael. read a primer on evolution with an open mind - you are tilting at windmills here:
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4010
Scroll down to Myth #1 - that is the one you have been cought out by. Get back if you have any questions about it.

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

We believe the author of the book of John was written by John. You don't know who wrote it, do you??

Correct, I don't know who wrote it and I don't pretend that I do. The general scholarly opinion is that G. John was written many decades after the events and probably had more than one author, well after disciple John's death.
I realise that you want to believe that John son of Zebedee wrote it, but your belief doesn't make it so. You have no more knowledge than I do who actually wrote it.

You haven't the slightest idea. Same with the other books of the Bible. Who are you to know who wrote what. You barely peruse the Bible in ten years! You don't know what is going on inside the Bible. You feel it's too time-consuming to read it. You have to start with learning just a few verses each week or day, it's up to you. Soon, you will learn stuff that's in there. You really need to go to church and go to Sunday School. They will help you to know which verses to learn initially and after that. Otherwise, you don't have much knowledge about the Bible than what you can get off the Internet. One book collecting dust. Do you even own a Bible??

Michael

Owning an actual Bible is hardly the point unless you think some kind of magical power emanates from a book. You are apparently convinced even before you read it and accept it lock stock and barrel without question, uncritically and credulously.
Not me however. When I read it I want to be convinced by the words or it can simply be rejected, something you apparently are not able to even contemplate.
There are many different English versions of the Bible (28?) all of which can be instantly accessed from the Bible Gateway. Which one is your favourite Michael, or do you have one of each?

 

[TheDuke]

Dear TheDuke,'

What a bunch of nonsense. Don't post gibberish. Do you think the Koran was solely written by Mohamed? It was written by many Arabic scholars, most likely. In the Koran, it says that the 'jinn' {devils} are made of fire, and then our Bible says the devils will burn in Hell for awhile. So how can fire hurt fire?? It doesn't make any sense. How would the jinn, who are 'made' of fire, have to worry about being burned up in fire make any sense?? The prophet is also an divorcee and adulterer. That is interesting. They also believe Mohamed is greater than Jesus. Another big, huge mistake! Enough. It's almost 4a.m. here.

Michael

As long as you do it, I see no reason to quit :devil:

Also, you didn't even address a single point, are you unable to???????

cheers!



PS: nowhere did I claim it was big Moe, who wrote the Quran, he just wrote it DOWN!

 

[TheDuke]

Dear Greg,

Where's your proof? I doubt there were children Jesus' age or over, that had the name Jesus. It was bestowed upon Him by God. Any qualms with that?

How was your New Year's Eve and Day this year?? I hope it was wonderful!! Mine was excellent. It's going to be any interesting year.

Much Love And Best Wishes,

Michael

Google is your friend.

https://www.quora.com/How-common-was-the-name-Jesus-around-5-BC

http://www.jesus.org/is-jesus-god/names-of-jesus/jesus-an-ordinary-name.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2008/12/happy_birthday_dear_yeshua_happy_birthday_to_you.html

 

[iouae]

It's time for another round of "spot the contradiction"


Is the god of the bible honest?
Well judge for yourself:

In many places, such as Hebrews 6:18 it's obviously stated that God is incapable of lying.
In many other places, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:11 it's obviously stated that he lies.

It states that the Antichrist lies and is allowed to perform miracles to add to his credibility. God wants his end-time Christians tested to see if they have any spine.

Are the commandments binding?
Well judge for yourself:

In many places, such as Ecclesiastes 12:13 it's obviously stated that the good old stuff still holds.
In many other places, such as Ephesians 2:15 it's obviously stated that now we can forget about them.

The commandments done away with here are the ones creating separation between Jew and Gentile, such as that Gentiles worship in the outer courtyard.

Do we have free will?
Well judge for yourself:

In many places, such as 2 Timothy 1:9 it's obviously stated that our fates are given long before we are even born.
In many other places, well honestly, I wasn't able to find any references for us having "free will". That's very strange indeed.

God had a purpose from the beginning of time, which is different to that it was all planned out in detail.

 

[Hedshaker]

Originally Posted by Greg Jennings View Post
I'll try this again:

Every generation produces (at best) a tiny tiny change in any animal. You seem to think that at some point a momma ape just plopped out a baby human. That's far from how evolution works. Best case scenario, an ape could never turn into a human in less than hundreds of thousands of generations. And absolutely the shortest any generation would take for hominids is 13 years. So with those estimates, the very earliest that an ape could turn into a human would be 13 x (X)100,000. That's a minimum of 1.3 million years. And that's an absolute minimum in a repeating best case scenario for 100,000 generations in a row. In reality it would take much much longer because the best case scenario almost never happens in nature

Dear Greg,

Just one other thing here. If an 'ape' changed just a bit every generation, then we should, as humans, have noticed a half-ape, half man by now. You see, there would be thousands or more of apes changing at some point at any time. Even little changes add up over a few centuries. Man would have made note of it and we should have some apes now in one of the 'stages'/bitty changes. But there is none. All of the apes look the same. The most they do is sometimes be white apes. That's it. I'm tired of trying to explain this, so I think this is it. You don't seem to see the whole picture at all. Out of thousands of apes now, we should see changes in many of them at certain points in their genesis of change.

Michael

I has to be said. I nominate Michael Cadry for Dunning Krugar effect of all time.

The Dunning Krugar effect from the man himself:

Dunning Krugar effect

Congratulations Michael

 

[iouae]

Dear iouae,

I think because Jesus came doing miracles for God and caused people to believe in God; then Satan wanted the same for him, so it is granted, but not very successful. Also, God wants to separate the wheat from the chaff. Those who are loyal and true to Him, and those who are not. You have to love God an awful lot to endure and surpass all evil that may come against you, and come out a winner!! I suppose you don't understand that, so you'll find out later. God Bless The Children In The Future!!

With Much Love, Praise God, iouae,

Michael

That's more or less how I would have explained it too Michael.

Regards

 

[Hedshaker]

God had a purpose from the beginning of time, which is different to that it was all planned out in detail.

That's clever. How long did it take God to work out this purpose before the beginning of time..... Oops!

 

[6days]

It states that the Antichrist lies and is allowed to perform miracles to add to his credibility. God wants his end-time Christians tested to see if they have any spine.

The commandments done away with here are the ones creating separation between Jew and Gentile, such as that Gentiles worship in the outer courtyard.

God had a purpose from the beginning of time, which is different to that it was all planned out in detail.

There are lists on atheist websites of apparent Biblical contradictions. Most of the points on these lists show childlessly simple reasoning...as if they can't understand literature. There are actually some interesting points though. I would suggest that you get someone to pick ONE thing they think is a contradiction and have them defend that one point. (Keeps you on track). But often you end up debating atheist theology..... They are determined to believe there are contradictions, and logic isn't their friend.

 

[patrick jane]

Dearest 6d,

Welcome and congratulations for joining Michael on the stage. You 2 would make quite a show as stand-up comedians.

I admire your determination in defending the indefensible to the bitter end. That's the spirit.


So, does that mean that you reject the holy truth of the Quran? You are the worst infidel. The Quran is absolutely sublime and perfect. It contains nothing but God's word.

Your petty bible is absurd, you even admit it yourself:
"written by over 40 authors"
Seriously, the supposed word of the divine, transcribed by mere mortals, over a period of "1500 years". Redacted, mistranslated and edited time after time. It cannot - by your own admission - be divine, but clearly man-made.

The holy Quran in contrast, was written down by a single illiterate person. How do you imagine that could be without god's own hand guiding his messenger to write down the absolute truth?


Just look at these random examples:
Proverbs 1:7 - So you can't learn anything, unless you're scared of your saviour????? Gee, no wonder most scientists don't believe :shocked:

Genesis 2:19-20 - So, all other animals were created male and female, but the poor Adam was all alone..... no wonder he was spiteful And then he named the animals, oh how cute. Except that every animal has a different name in every language and obviously Adam didn't bother with all the species discovered during the last couple of centuries, eh

James 5:14-18 - So, prayer heals all sickness and controls the climate. Gee, I wonder why we even bother with medicine and meteorology.....



Until next time, boys.......

Your comparisons are first grade reading level at best. Foolish

 

[alwight]

There are lists on atheist websites of apparent Biblical contradictions. Most of the points on these lists show childlessly simple reasoning...as if they can't understand literature. There are actually some interesting points though. I would suggest that you get someone to pick ONE thing they think is a contradiction and have them defend that one point. (Keeps you on track). But often you end up debating atheist theology..... They are determined to believe there are contradictions, and logic isn't their friend.

Oh come on 6days fair doos, yes it may be your fantasy doctrine where you can invent antichrists, a satanic arch-enemy, believe an imaginary global flood was real, we are all cursed because of Adam, the confusion of tongues actually happened, believe in two different creation stories at the same time, a snake talked, rainbows are a sign from God, Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt, how many plagues was it(?), angel of death, Gandolf the Grey becomes Gandolf the White etc errr..., :think: ...but atheists often like to fantasise too, only they will usually come back down to Earth occasionally when reality calls.

 

[6days]

Truth is that Natural Selection simply selects whatever works best, it doesn't have a rulebook on what it can and can not do.

That is a very naïve belief promoted by evolutionists. Evolutionists have sort of made their god to be 'selection'. Their god 'selection' is omnipotent waving a magical wand selecting who lives and who dies. But selection is a process that generally causes a loss of genetic variation... the opposite of what evolutionism hopes for.

Natural selection is something that is real. But instead of being all powerful it is weak with limitations. It SOMETIMES...on SOME mutations works on the genic level but invariably fails at the genomic level. Selection simply can't select from the hundreds of new mutations added to each generation, or humanity would cease to exist.

"Negative frequency dependant selection is one of the few forms of natural selection that can act to preserve genetic variation,most forms of natural selection lead to the loss of genetic variation*as unfit alleles are "weeded out" of the population.
http://www.uic.edu/classes/bios/bios101/Selexio.htm

Common sense actually suggests that it would not somehow be able to exclude any beneficial mutation that happened to come along, that indeed beneficial adaptions would be built on previous beneficial adaptions. So in fact beneficial mutations clearly are positively more selectable and thus more likely to be transferred to the next generation, despite their initially relatively smaller numbers.

That is the belief system upon which evolutionism rests. But its a false belief.
One reason that particular 'logic' does not work is that even so called "beneficial" mutations usually, and possibly always are a result of a mutation destroying pre-existing genetic. For example a mutation could destroy the specificity of an enzyme, allowing a beneficial outcome. Loss of information again is the opposite of what evolutionism needs.
Another reason your belief fails is that the rare mutation that causes a beneficial outcome is only one out of hundreds of deleterious mutations. Our genome is crumbling at a much higher rate than selection can keep up with. Geneticists are concerned about high mutational burden..... Not a single one thinks that mutations with a beneficial outcome is going to save the human race.

The evidence is consistent with God's Word. We were "wonderfully made" but live in a fallen world where death, pain, and suffering exist. As Christians we look forward to that time when He shall wipe every tear, and death no longer exists.

 

[musterion]

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:mock: DaDook

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