Creation vs. Evolution

[6days]

Animals cannot sin, therefore sin and resulting death does not apply to them.

God cursed all creation, and all creation now groans.
Death to nepesh creatures did not exist before sin entered the world.

The picture of God taking the life of innocent animals after sin to clothe humans is a picture of ruined creation, and a picture of innocent blood sacrifice to cover sin.
Your belief system compromises the gospel.

 

[iouae]

Perhaps in the chapters you want to add to God's Word.
There is no back story... God calls it the beginning...
You call a a beginning.

The very first word in Hebrew is "be-reshith". There is no definite article in it. So it does NOT say in THE beginning. Rather it implies by the absence of "THE" that this is A beginning.

The first word could have been "be-ha-reshith" which would then have read "in THE beginning".

It is amazing that the translators have made a mistake in translating the very first Hebrew word of the Bible by adding a "the". Obviously they believed strongly that this was "the" beginning, not "a" beginning.

The Hebrew could even read "To begin - God(s) created the heaven(s) and the earth". That, to me would be the accurate translation.

 

[6days]

Th
It is amazing that the translators have made a mistake in translating the very first Hebrew word of the Bible by adding a "the". Obviously they believed strongly that this was "the" beginning, not "a" beginning.

It is amazing that all major translation teams have it wrong...Only prophet Iouae can give us the proper interpretation of scripture. Iouae seems to even understand scripture better than Christ who also referred to "the beginning of creation".

 

[iouae]

God cursed all creation, and all creation now groans.
Death to nepesh creatures did not exist before sin entered the world.

The picture of God taking the life of innocent animals after sin to clothe humans is a picture of ruined creation, and a picture of innocent blood sacrifice to cover sin.
Your belief system compromises the gospel.

No, it enhances the Gospel. When Adam sinned, God in the form of Christ took a lamb and slayed it, clothing Adam and Eve with skin.

This was a type of Him (the Lamb) dying and covering their nakedness (a type of sin) with His righteousness.

There is no food chain before or after the fall which can exist without one thing eating another. This however has NOTHING to do with Pauls analogy which was ONLY to say that as one man (Adam) brought sin into the world, one man (Christ) took it out. From this you have invented the idea that animals cannot eat each other.

 

[6days]

There is no food chain before or after the fall which can exist without one thing eating another.

You believe that because you reject scripture
There was a food chain before the fall... Read Genesis. The food chain did not involve carnivory for animals or humans.

Continue reading Genesis and you will find that God later permits carnivory

This however has NOTHING to do with Pauls analogy which was ONLY to say that as one man (Adam) brought sin into the world, one man (Christ) took it out. From this you have invented the idea that animals cannot eat each other.

When done reading Genesis, Romans and 1 Corinthians would be a good place to read next.

 

[6days]

No, it enhances the Gospel. When Adam sinned, God in the form of Christ took a lamb and slayed it, clothing Adam and Eve with skin

Perhaps... But we don't know if it was a lamb do we?

 

[iouae]

It is such a cutesy hippie idea that some well meaning Christian came up with that there was no death of animals before the fall.

This means that every carnivore and omnivore originally was a herbivore.
This means that every amoeba (a single-celled animal) only ate algae. Every hydra (a tiny jellyfish) only ate small plants etc.

Do you know how much work it would take to change every animal on earth today to a herbivore. It would have taken a new creation. The whole ecology would have had to have been changed because there could not exist a food chain of animals eating each other if all animals were herbivores.

Again, this Peta-compliant world has a certain attraction - but is totally impractical and impossible.

And the Bible does not preach this.
Folks MISINTERPRET Paul's analogy to make Paul say things like "there was absolutely no death before the fall".
When in reality Paul ONLY addresses human death in all his epistles.

 

[6days]

It is such a cutesy hippie idea that some well meaning Christian came up with that there was no death of animals before the fall.

This means that every carnivore and omnivore originally was a herbivore.
This means that every amoeba (a single-celled animal) only ate algae. Every hydra (a tiny jellyfish) only ate small plants etc.

You seem very disrespectful of God's Word calling it a cutsey hippey idea.
You really need read Genesis.
(Single celled animals were not called nepesh)

 

[iouae]

Every mouthpart of every animal is specialised.

Mosquitoes have a proboscis for sucking blood.
Spiders spin webs to catch flying animals.
Jellyfish have stinging cells (nematoblasts) for stinging prey.
Carnivores have short digestive systems for digesting meat.
Chameleons have long tongues for catching insects.

I could go on forever, but each creature can only eat what God designed it to eat.
Are you saying that God reengineered every herbivore's mouthparts at the fall to create omnivores and carnivores. I see nothing in Genesis saying this. I only get folks torturing Pauls analogy of the 2 Adams, getting this analogy to (falsly) say this.

 

[iouae]

You seem very disrespectful of God's Word calling it a cutsey hippey idea.
You really need read Genesis.
(Single celled animals were not called nepesh)

No disrespect intended but you misinterpret me as you do Paul.
I am saying that nice Christians get cutesy hippie interpretations of God's Word. It is not God's Word which is cutesy hippie.

 

[6days]

I could go on forever, but each creature can only eat what God designed it to eat.

Genesis 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life. And it was so.

 

[iouae]

It is amazing that all major translation teams have it wrong...Only prophet Iouae can give us the proper interpretation of scripture. Iouae seems to even understand scripture better than Christ who also referred to "the beginning of creation".

I presume you are referring to this...

Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

And here is another, prior creation of Lucifer described in Ezek 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

And likewise I could find dozens of creations and beginnings.

What Christ was speaking of was "from the beginning of the creation (of man) God made them male and female".

It does not exclude all prior things God may have created.

 

[MichaelCadry]

But the new heavens and new earth do not discard the old heavens and earth, only renew them.

Likewise Gen 1 was describing the creation of a new heaven and earth from what was left of the old one. And this took God literally 6 days.

Dear iouae,

It is written that the Earth and Heaven shall flee away and melt, etc. and that there will be a new Earth and Heaven, and a New Jerusalem. I can't wait!! I'm chomping at the bit. That is the place where we who love God dearly will live and remain. And there will be no light of the Sun, for God and the Lamb shall provide light instead. If you want scriptures for all of the things I am saying here, I can provide them.

Thanks & God's Best For You, iouae,

Michael

 

[iouae]

Genesis 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life. And it was so.

I believe this is saying that plants form the basis of all food chains, for you and for every animal.

This I will concede however, I do not believe Adam and Eve were eating meat.

I do believe however, that as soon as they were out of Eden, meat eating became as normal as today.

Abel brought a blood sacrifice AND IT PLEASED God.
Cain brought a non-blood sacrifice and it displeased God.
Was Abel just keeping flocks of sheep for their wool? How ridiculous does that sound?

And God started off the killing Himself, when He clothed Adam and Eve.

 

[iouae]

Dear iouae,

It is written that the Earth and Heaven shall flee away and melt, etc. and that there will be a new Earth and Heaven, and a New Jerusalem. I can't wait!! I'm chomping at the bit. That is the place where we who love God dearly will live and remain. And there will be no light of the Sun, for God and the Lamb shall provide light instead. If you want scriptures for all of the things I am saying here, I can provide them.

Thanks & God's Best For You, iouae,

Michael

Hi Michael

I too look forward to the restoration of conditions as in Eden.
These prophecies describe that restoration .

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

These conditions may have prevailed in Eden, before the fall, but I look at the fossil record with T. rex and all his buddies which had HUGE teeth, designed solely for eating smaller animals.

 

[MichaelCadry]

The point this guy was making is the same one as 6 days makes with his black would be white if God said so comment. In other words, it would be true if the Bible said so.

Personally I have a deep and meaningful relationship with reality

Dear Hedshaker,

Now that's a different story. If God wanted to call 'white' black and 'black' white, or orange, or red, He could have. But 2 + 2 = 4 stays the way it is. You just don't seem to understand.

God gave Adam the names to call the animals He created and formed. Genesis tells us this. God also caused man to call this the Milky Way. We are all children of His being weaned on Milk(y Way). Do you understand now, or no?

Much Respect And Sweet Wishes For You,

Michael

:rapture:

 

[MichaelCadry]

The agreement is with what God's Word plainly says. Most of the others on here in this thread argue that God didn't speak plainly...They believe there was previous creations, contrary to the gospel message.

Dear Buddy,

You are so right! I can't believe how difficult everyone has to make it with ideas they've heard from the devil. Satan goes out to deceive men. It happens even to the best of us sometimes. I thought Armageddon was going to happen this Autumn, and it didn't. So I got deceived, but it didn't last long that I corrected my being deceived so that I didn't remain being deceived before Autumn was over. So I can see why these things happen with some of our friends here. They are all my friends, yes, even DavisBJ, because they are here wanting to learn and to add their beliefs also. We can correct our beliefs through us sharing. So it all works out in the wash. You're one of the best, 6days. I should call you 7days!! Heheeehehee!!

May God Always Guide You Into Truth As He Has!!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :rapture: :rapture: :cloud9: :cloud9:
​

 

[DavisBJ]

A while back I caught a video on youtube where a fundamentalist Christian said: If the Bible said 2 + 2 equalled 5 then I would take that as true and just work it out..

I've been trying to find it but can't remember which it was. Been a while back.

Perhaps you are recalling what Winston Smith, a character in George Orwell’s “1984” said:

It was as though some huge force were pressing down upon you – something that penetrated inside your skull, battering against your brain, frightening you out of your beliefs, persuading you, almost, to deny the evidence of your senses. In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy.​

Isn't it a strange phenomenon? When black can be white and 2 + 2 can = 5, profound religious beliefs are really more important than actual reality.

In 6days’ case, in just this thread I see at least 13 posts where 6days has declared that logic necessitates a pre-existent creator to bring the universe into existence. But now he shows that for him logic is actually a disposable hindrance when it interferes with tribal creation beliefs.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear iouae,

Okay, you are done talking with 6days, so I would like to help you. See in Gen. 1:30KJV. "And to every beast of the Earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the Earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat; and it was so." In other words, ALL of God's creatures and Man were given plant life and fruit to eat. Lions did not eat lambs. They ate grass or straw. It does say in the Bible later on that the lion shall eat straw like the lamb, or something to that effect, after Armageddon is over. It shall most likely be again, that man will eat plant life and fruit, and all creatures also will be vegans. Eating meat will not happen, but only according to what God's Will is about it. I also believe that some people shall live again until 900+ years again. The devil shall be bound with chains and locked up for a thousand years. See Rev. 20:2,3KJV. From what I understand, the devil also causes death, but he will be locked away for 1,000 years, so there will be no devil to cause death. Man shall live only as long as God strives with him to keep him alive. That's all for now.

May God Guide You Towards The Truth,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Every mouthpart of every animal is specialised.

Mosquitoes have a proboscis for sucking blood.
Spiders spin webs to catch flying animals.
Jellyfish have stinging cells (nematoblasts) for stinging prey.
Carnivores have short digestive systems for digesting meat.
Chameleons have long tongues for catching insects.

I could go on forever, but each creature can only eat what God designed it to eat.
Are you saying that God reengineered every herbivore's mouthparts at the fall to create omnivores and carnivores. I see nothing in Genesis saying this. I only get folks torturing Pauls analogy of the 2 Adams, getting this analogy to (falsly) say this.

Dear iouae,

I hope that I'm not butting in here, but you need to read Gen. 9:3. Noah was given permission to eat meat. Before that, everyone was eating plants and fruit, etc. This is why 6days keeps telling you to read Genesis. If you read the first 9 chapters, you would have the entire story that you seek. And yes, God can make everyone and every thing vegan again, which means no one will eat meat.

Hope this helps. He gave Noah and his family, and descendants to eat meat, and the animals to eat meat also. Now you've got the real deal.

Praise The Lord God,

Michael